Puppet Master, Skyfire and Flyers

[Thiazi]

Flyers have to choose to gain the special rule Skyfire at the start of the shooting phase.

Puppet Master allows you to make a shooting attack with an oppents unit

So if Pupper Master hits a Flyer and that flyer then shoots at another flyer does is the skyfire rule active or does it need snapshots to hit?

Points that matter

IS puppet master done in the shooting phase?

IF so does it happen after the flyer would have declared it was using skyfire?

IF it happens during the shooting phase and before the flyer would make the choice can the psyker choose to use skyfire? The power just says it makes a normal shooting attack is part of that attack choosing weather or not to use skyfire?

Sorry i dont have my rule book on me or first point would be easy to answer.

[helvexis]

i have no idea but i think it would make sense to go with whatever the controling player chose in his/her own shooting phase
but i have no rules basis to support that

[Tynskel]

Every power has a category and type. These categories explain how to use the power.

Manifesting witchfire counts as firing an Assault weapon.
Witchfire must roll to hit. In this case, unless the caster has 'Skyfire' the caster can only snap fire the shot.
Furthermore, Puppet Master is a Focused Witchfire, and if the power was passed on a Psychic check of 5 or less, the caster can pick which model is targeted.

Flyers must declare their firing mode at the beginning of the shooting phase.

[Thiazi]

Every power has a category and type. These categories explain how to use the power.

Manifesting witchfire counts as firing an Assault weapon.
Witchfire must roll to hit. In this case, unless the caster has 'Skyfire' the caster can only snap fire the shot.
Furthermore, Puppet Master is a Focused Witchfire, and if the power was passed on a Psychic check of 5 or less, the caster can pick which model is targeted.

Flyers must declare their firing mode at the beginning of the shooting phase.

Just to make sure i understand this

1. Puppet master happens in the shooting phase. But after the player would choose to use skyfire

2.The caster makes their casting roll, then if the roll succed needs to roll to hit using BS, and if targetting a flyer they need a 6 to hit.

3. the flyer would then need be forced to snap fire if targetting another flier since it is too late in the phase to gain the skyfire rule.

[Aramel]

There is absolutely nothing in the rules to suggest that psychic powers "roll to hit.". Needing a 6 to hit zooming flyers applies only to shooting attacks that use a BS to hit. Puppet master says you take control of the unit and make a shooting attack "as if it were yours.".

That means that any special abilities/effects on the unit and choices made by the opponent in his last turn, will still apply. So yes, if he decided to change to syfire mode, then you will have to fire skyfire. However you can't force your opponent to keep the skyfire mode in his turn, because it will have re-set at the beginning of his turn.

[Tynskel]

Read about witchfire. Witchfire specifically states use BS to hit. You need to read all the rules, not some.

this is in the section about psykers right after ICs.


besides, shooting attacks that don't use a BS to hit cannot target flyers, anyhow.

[Thiazi]

That means that any special abilities/effects on the unit and choices made by the opponent in his last turn, will still apply. So yes, if he decided to change to syfire mode, then you will have to fire skyfire. However you can't force your opponent to keep the skyfire mode in his turn, because it will have re-set at the beginning of his turn.

This is very contridictory(sp? is contridictory even a word) If it "re-set at the beginning of his turn" then it can't keep something it choose last turn. RESET implies it goes back to default.


Tynskel thanks for the input. I will brush up on ths psychic rules I have not been focusing on them because necrons have none. I made the mistake of expecting my opponets to know their rules and trusting them.