Favorite "Secret of the 40k Universe"

[HammerofVaul]

So we can explain the existence of the two set of divinities in the two sets of Eldar stories fairly simply. Following the War In Heaven, the Early-Eldar rose to power over the galaxy. They told mythologised tales of the War, refering to the Deceiver as the Laughing God and calling all the other C'tan and Old Ones "Gods". However over the 60 million years that followed, many of the Middle-Eldar forgot the historical basis of the tales and started treating them more and more religiously- praying to the "Gods" depicted in the tales. The Eldar are a highly psychic race, and by focussing their belief on these imagined beings they brought them into existance as real warp-entity Gods. Thus the mythologised view of the C'tan and Old Ones gave birth to actual Gods. And by the time of the Birth Of Slaanesh, The Laughing God was a real God, no longer just another name for the Deceiver.

So Cegorach the Laughing God worshipped by the Harlequins is not actually the Deceiver, although Cegorach did originate as a myth about the Deceiver.

An interesting perspective, but the thing is that Cegorach doesn't exist in the warp. the reason that he was able to avoid Slaanesh and destruction was that he did not have a presence in the warp, as he hid himself entirely in the webway, so I think that rules him out as a warp deity.

I believe the Eldar deities are of two possible origins. the first is that they are old ones who greatly favored the Eldar above the other created races, and abandoned the other old ones to be gods amongst their creation. The second being that they were created by the old ones with the intention of championing the Eldar agaisnt the C'tan, and therefore are merely Eldar of superior design and creation.

[Dunadan]

In the main Rogue Trader rulebook there is a kind of cool planet which exists in a stable Warp Storm. The storm abates every 100 years and for a few days the Imperium swoops down on the planet to remind the inhabitants of their duty to the Imperium. Tithes are collected, heads are busted, Imperial Law is restored just before the Imperial forces evacuate the area and leave the locals to go back into the storm and resume their normal lawless lives. I seem to recall the drawings accompanying that description in the book had a very Wild West feel to them including a wanted poster behind a Marine and a tumbleweed blowing by a land speeder.

That would be Helsreach on Logans World, one of the Lost Worlds in the Eye of Terror. The storm doesn't abate, but every 4 to 10 years the eye 'blinks', allowing ships to enter. The warp storms around the Lost Worlds also keep out warp entities.

[person person]

Found something in the Horus loyalist or traitor?????? thread

Also, we get glimpses in Legion and Visions of Heresy of the Emperor's ruthless nature. I know I'm not alone in suspecting that the whole Imperial Truth was actually a way of clearing the decks for the arrival of the Emperor's own cult to be introduced later so there is some validity in an argument that the Emperor was betraying Horus as much as Horus betrayed him.

Finally, it could be that Horus was actually the Emperor's fall guy. Given the age of the Emperor and the scale of his ambition it appears that he was the ulitmate pragmatist. He may have shed a tear over the fall of his favoured son but ultimately everyone was expendable in his eyes. Civil war may have been inevitable - the Emperor built a highly militarised society dedicated to aggressive conquest and expansion. In addition he had quelled religious insurrection through Imperial Truth but in doing so he reduced himself to just a man, his rule was not sacrosanct. Garviel Loken wondered what would happen when the Crusade was complete. What future would there be for the legions of men who knew nothing except how to wage war? Perhaps the Emperor worried about that too. His vast empire may have been doomed to fall in upon itself in civil war. Throughout history both ancient (Rome - suspension of the Senate and appointment of the Emperor) and modern (detention without trial and legislation such as the Patriot Act and its equivalents in various countries) leaders and governments have used the threat of external aggression, espionage, terrorism or insurrection to expand their powers.

If the Emperor did nothing, then he did not know who would betray him. If he engineered the downfall of his most exalted servant then nobody would be above suspicion and he could create institutions such as the Inquisition and Officio Assassinorum and be free to eliminate anyone he wished on the grounds that they were traitors. Of course if this was his plan he presumably hadn't counted on fully half of the legions joining the rebellion.

BrotherAlpharius wrote that BTW...

[darth_papi76]

I think we give the Emperor too much credit. Its bad enough that he beat up a C'Tan and trapped it on Mars in the year 1100AD. The idea that he planned his death is silly and takes away from the drama and impact of the Horus Heresy. I really wish that Games Workshop would bring back Chaos as the preeminent threat to the Imperium. Plus I would love for them to get back to Cadia. What's going over there? Sorry if I'm rambling.

[Duke]

Plus I would love for them to get back to Cadia. What's going over there?

Well, the easy answer is... "WAR!"

I have been thinking a lot about the lost Primarchs... Here are the options

1. Fell to Chaos/ rebelled against the emperor: This can't be it because Horus fell and they still talk about him
2. Went to another galaxy: Possibly, but why would you not talk about them then?
3. Died in some crazy battle: Possibly, but wouldn't you honour them more?
4. Are still alive, somewhere: Maybe... But probably not
5. It is a great lie and the Emperor is using them as a secret force like Grey Knights founding, etc.
6. The Emperor did something to them: Possible, he locked up a C'tan for thousands of years for later use.
7. They mutated horribly and are now the race known as the "Tyranids,": This has to be it... lol

All in all I think that the most logical option is that something horrible happened to them and the Emperor is hiding it to cover his "Imperial truth," maybe he personally slaughtered the whole group........ WAIT! I think I just figured out what happened.

We all know that GW likes to base fluff off of history. What group in history was once one of the most exalted of Warrior Monks, only to be betrayed by their King? The Knights Templar! They were wiped out to the man almost and all records of them were burned... Simply because they 'fell out of favour,' I really think this is what happened to the lost Legions.

So the Emperor personally signed their death warrant and slaughtered them all, then cleared the records to protect himself.


DUKE

[Kelmon]

I also think he ordered them to be butchered away ...

But WHY ? What has to happen, that the emperor sings the death warrant on his own sons ?

Maybe they were utterly mutated, when he found them and he destroyed only the primarchs and used their legions for something els - splitting them among the other legions, go on secret missions, OR ... what else...

[AirHorse]

I reckon their geneseed failed and they went insane or out of control in some way. Its both tragic and would make sense as to why the records were cleared. If two legions geneseeds can fail like that would anyone trust the other legions?

[Duke]

I also think he ordered them to be butchered away ...

But WHY ? What has to happen, that the emperor sings the death warrant on his own sons ?

Maybe they were utterly mutated, when he found them and he destroyed only the primarchs and used their legions for something els - splitting them among the other legions, go on secret missions, OR ... what else...

Well, lets look again at the Knights Templar to see how they fell from grace. Long story short King Phillip was endebted to the Knights and had them wiped out to remove his debt. I could see the Emperor doing this sort of thing. Maybe the Primarchs didn't make it through incubation/ were killed by their homeworlds (unlikely). Anyhow, the best idea I can come up with is that the Emperor wanted these guys gone, no matter what and if your that desperate it is because you are afraid of them, much like Phillip was afraid of the Knights Templar. This possibly happened prior to the great crusade.


DUKE

[dvs1]

the legion of the damned. Are they formally of the fire falcons from the 13th founding, or something completely different? If they were, their founding is several centuries before their re-emergence. Lost in the warp?

[WhyteLocust]

Well, the easy answer is... "WAR!"

I have been thinking a lot about the lost Primarchs... Here are the options

1. Fell to Chaos/ rebelled against the emperor: This can't be it because Horus fell and they still talk about him
2. Went to another galaxy: Possibly, but why would you not talk about them then?
3. Died in some crazy battle: Possibly, but wouldn't you honour them more?
4. Are still alive, somewhere: Maybe... But probably not
5. It is a great lie and the Emperor is using them as a secret force like Grey Knights founding, etc.
6. The Emperor did something to them: Possible, he locked up a C'tan for thousands of years for later use.
7. They mutated horribly and are now the race known as the "Tyranids,": This has to be it... lol

All in all I think that the most logical option is that something horrible happened to them and the Emperor is hiding it to cover his "Imperial truth," maybe he personally slaughtered the whole group........ WAIT! I think I just figured out what happened.

We all know that GW likes to base fluff off of history. What group in history was once one of the most exalted of Warrior Monks, only to be betrayed by their King? The Knights Templar! They were wiped out to the man almost and all records of them were burned... Simply because they 'fell out of favour,' I really think this is what happened to the lost Legions.

So the Emperor personally signed their death warrant and slaughtered them all, then cleared the records to protect himself.


DUKE

My guess is that they were a complete failure and thus a major blow to the emperor's ego.
Maybe they turned out to be completely normal with nothing special about them.
The emperor being such a huge megalomaniac would never have been able to deal with the shame of such a failure so he instead wiped out every mention of them ever existing. The only proof being that he had already found the other primarchs and given them control of the numbered legions.