GW vs CHS legality for the layman (or Laywoman)

[Psychosplodge]

I did have to re-read that.

[DF3CT]

He said Chapter Approved is making a comeback, not Chapter House. Chapter Approved is GW's own occasional rules updates through White Dwarf and supplements.

Even their name is confusing~

I wish they would release chapter approved books again when there is enough content. Like the old Rogue Trader Compendium and the other manuals. Those were solid books.

With print on demand content easy and more affordable than print runs, there's no reason they can't take "risks" on print products as, for the most part, you order directly from them. Book is printed and shipped to you. HELL, if they didn't want to be stuck with thousands of copies in stores they can set it up so you can order on their website or in the store and have it shipped to your house or the store.

[Mr Mystery]

I wish they would release chapter approved books again when there is enough content. Like the old Rogue Trader Compendium and the other manuals. Those were solid books.

With print on demand content easy and more affordable than print runs, there's no reason they can't take "risks" on print products as, for the most part, you order directly from them. Book is printed and shipped to you. HELL, if they didn't want to be stuck with thousands of copies in stores they can set it up so you can order on their website or in the store and have it shipped to your house or the store.

Looks like what GW Digital are aiming for....

[Renegade]

He said Chapter Approved is making a comeback, not Chapter House. Chapter Approved is GW's own occasional rules updates through White Dwarf and supplements.

Even their name is confusing~

Whoops... my apologies.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Yeah, digital is the new compendium.

[Morbid]

First I would love to address the Blizzard ripping GW off part. Warcraft was originally pitched to GW to be a Warhammer RTS. GW said no. So Blizzard then made their own lore. To look at Warhammer lore and Warcraft lore and they are staggeringly different. Warhammer is closer to classical high fantasy, where as Warcraft is wholesale inspired by Greek and Norse mythology.

Next Starcraft was originally going to BE a Warhammer 40k RTS. GW backed out so Blizzard changed it enough to not be Warhammer 40k and was packaged as Starcraft. That is why the terran look like space marines and why the zerg look like nids, oh and the protoss look slightly like eldar. Again this is because it was actually GOING to be a Warhammer 40k RTS, but GW pulled out and Blizzard didn't want to lose their work.

To say that GW ripped off Dune or Paradise lost or Tolkien is pretty much a moot point. Yeah they were very strongly inspired but still different. I don't see you guys ripping Dungeons and Dragons from wholesale ripping off Tolkien or Conan or any early fantasy fiction. Why? Why is GW suddenly the bad guy for making an IP with similar tropes that have existed since the dawn of fiction thousands of years ago?

CHS is guilty imo. Making "Space Warrior" of the "Skin Butchers Army" or to the close to name but not quite would have been okay imo. But direct name rip offs and the like is unacceptable according to the law. I did see their site before they took most of the bad stuff down because I have been looking for a good model for Lion El'Johnson for years. No luck but FW will have me covered soon.

[DF3CT]

First I would love to address the Blizzard ripping GW off part. Warcraft was originally pitched to GW to be a Warhammer RTS. GW said no. So Blizzard then made their own lore. To look at Warhammer lore and Warcraft lore and they are staggeringly different. Warhammer is closer to classical high fantasy, where as Warcraft is wholesale inspired by Greek and Norse mythology.

Next Starcraft was originally going to BE a Warhammer 40k RTS. GW backed out so Blizzard changed it enough to not be Warhammer 40k and was packaged as Starcraft. That is why the terran look like space marines and why the zerg look like nids, oh and the protoss look slightly like eldar. Again this is because it was actually GOING to be a Warhammer 40k RTS, but GW pulled out and Blizzard didn't want to lose their work.

To say that GW ripped off Dune or Paradise lost or Tolkien is pretty much a moot point. Yeah they were very strongly inspired but still different. I don't see you guys ripping Dungeons and Dragons from wholesale ripping off Tolkien or Conan or any early fantasy fiction. Why? Why is GW suddenly the bad guy for making an IP with similar tropes that have existed since the dawn of fiction thousands of years ago?

CHS is guilty imo. Making "Space Warrior" of the "Skin Butchers Army" or to the close to name but not quite would have been okay imo. But direct name rip offs and the like is unacceptable according to the law. I did see their site before they took most of the bad stuff down because I have been looking for a good model for Lion El'Johnson for years. No luck but FW will have me covered soon.

GW horrendously borrowed from Tolkien and Dune. It very much isn't a moot point when the fingers start getting pointed.
If you want to air other peoples skeletons, best be ready to have your own dragged over the coals.

GW has been around long enough in my mind to be considered an "inspiring work." where people can float the line with new game designs.

They are in the same category of Dbaggery as White Wolf when they tried to sue "Underworld." That was laughable.

Now, in GW's defense, they did have the rights to produce quite a few OLD Lotr games and miniatures. Hence why I didn't toss Judge Dredd into the mix of films getting ripped and twisted to seem "different". They had a fair amount of Dredd games and minis when they made good bookshelf games.

I don't remember much of my youthful D &D days, but none of the book material I read launched at my face screaming Tolkien.

Could we argue that "Warlock of fire top mountain" was a take on Sauron? Maybe.

Steve Jackson get inspired by Mad Max and Death Race? More than likely.

No one cares about those developers borrowing because they aren't righteous goon lawyers running a passionless wayward gaming company which has lost its heart and maybe even its soul.

Ya, ya they're a business and need to do what makes them the most profit, but they are in a habit of recycling their games. Their creativity is as dead as a Necron Lords Harem.

Well lets hope this conversation doesn't continue because I'm sure the mods will simply erase it like the other one if it continues off its intended rails.

Semi confrontational debate is fun. Not for everyone I guess.

[DarkLink]

DnD was heavily inspired by Tolkien. It's hard to find a Fantasy that wasn't. Before Tolkien, elves were tiny, mischievous little midgets not unlike faeries. Orks are a combination of a number of different mythological creatures.Tolkien singlehandedly created the way we commonly view elves, dwarves, orks, and a whole host of other Fantasy tropes.

[daboarder]

Except as far as I know chapterhouse never used any unique names, and never just copy and pasted any GW miniatures, they created third party bits and models based on GW's stuff. Which is clearly not illegal or at the very least is not something GW has a right to complain about seeing as warhammer fantasy is as much a copy of lord of the rings, as any of chapterhouses models.

do you have any specific examples that would support copyright infringement? I've heard they had something named malantai, which if true would be unique and in violation, but thats only what ive heard and nothing ive seen from them, is in violation.

Probably already adressed, but CHS does indeed use GW names such as "tervigon" is the advertisement of their product.

GW horrendously borrowed from Tolkien and Dune. It very much isn't a moot point when the fingers start getting pointed.
If you want to air other peoples skeletons, best be ready to have your own dragged over the coals.

GW has been around long enough in my mind to be considered an "inspiring work." where people can float the line with new game designs.

They are in the same category of Dbaggery as White Wolf when they tried to sue "Underworld." That was laughable.

Now, in GW's defense, they did have the rights to produce quite a few OLD Lotr games and miniatures. Hence why I didn't toss Judge Dredd into the mix of films getting ripped and twisted to seem "different". They had a fair amount of Dredd games and minis when they made good bookshelf games.

I don't remember much of my youthful D &D days, but none of the book material I read launched at my face screaming Tolkien.

Could we argue that "Warlock of fire top mountain" was a take on Sauron? Maybe.

Steve Jackson get inspired by Mad Max and Death Race? More than likely.

No one cares about those developers borrowing because they aren't righteous goon lawyers running a passionless wayward gaming company which has lost its heart and maybe even its soul.

Ya, ya they're a business and need to do what makes them the most profit, but they are in a habit of recycling their games. Their creativity is as dead as a Necron Lords Harem.

Well lets hope this conversation doesn't continue because I'm sure the mods will simply erase it like the other one if it continues off its intended rails.

Semi confrontational debate is fun. Not for everyone I guess.

Except we aren't talking about referencing or homage or anythign like that.

We ARE talking about CHS releasing "TERVIGON" kits, or "STORMRAVEN UPGRADE" kits.....BIG difference.

[Wolfshade]

In the other thread you seemed to be under the inmpression that if created an original artwork and you made a sculture (3D representation) of it then that is not breaching copyright. In the UK, and in this case we are talking UK law and its application to this case, this is a derivative work and the copyright would be retained by the original author, i.e. me.
It is akin to designing something then taking that design to a draftsman to formalise the design into a technical spec/drawing.