Calling all Elysian/AirCav players

[Atrotos]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking to start a thread here to exchange armylists and tactics for Elysians and IG AirCav in 6th. Finding other aircav players online is actually much harder than you think! If you know anyone running this kind of list in 6th please direct them to this page and encourage them to share their thoughts.

Many folks seem to think that any army list that allows you spam flyers in 6th is incredibly strong or even overpowered. This is, of course, total garbage. I've got about 60 games with AirCav in 6th (Elysians/ Elysian+IG, IG, D-99, Inquisition w/ Stormravens) and I'm finding it extremely difficult to design an army list with consistent performance.


My goal with my airborne is to play a non-mainstream army build that rewards good generalship. It's also important to me that I maintain the theme of Inquisitorial veterans (fast, well-equiped suicide units basically) in the spirit of the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers that are no longer with us.

Here are some notes I compiled earlier in the edition - some things have changed but most of it is still relevant.

So let's see:

- Deployment: Hammer and Anvil seems very well suited to a force with flyers. Obviously we can get across a lot faster and this helps mitigates uneven objective placement (since objectives are placed after sides are rolled for). What I've also noticed is how powerful the ability to outflank our flyers is. Already strategies have developed to negate an opponents flyers by placing one's units close to the opposing table edge. Flyers entering play from this edge are forced to fly over these units and cannot, therefore, shoot them. Outflanking flyers can attack from virtually any angle making them ideal for dogfighting - the Vendetta is the best anti-flyer in the game in my 7-game experience. Combine with the astropath for an incredibly flexible attack plan (I can't make the switch to IA:8 because Elysians don' have astropaths - he's that good!)

- Missions: Having both very fast Fast Attack and Heavy Support (Vulture) makes 2 of the 6 missions a cakewalk for AirCav. Relic is a nightmare though since our guys can't just hop in their rides and leave once they grab the objective. I cannot imagine how I'm ever going to claim this primary in this mission. Rather, First Blood, Linebreaker and slaying the warlord are the goal whilst simply annihilating enemy scoring units with ranged firepower.

- Reserves: So all-reserve armies autolose now. This one has been tough for me. At first my plan was to rely on ten man Stormtrooper and infiltrating Veterans(harker) to hold down the fort until the flyers showed up t.2. This plan worked for a few games but only barely. It's incredible how fast certain armies, particularly those with flying monsters, can be in your face on turn one. These expensive units became very expensive placeholders that were sacrificed to buy time every game - a poor use of resources. Either large platoons or allies seem to be the solution to this but each has their limitations. I'll stress again how important the Astropath is (and elysians don't even get one!) for that 2+ reserve roll for the flyers. If more than one or two flyers is still in reserve on turn 3 chances are the guys on the ground won't make it.

- Allies: We'll have to wait and see about IA lists and how they ally but I can imagine they'll be Battle Brothers with the Imperial Guard codex. This will finally give Elysians access to a real Company Command squad(!) and allow the IG to take troops in dedicated Valkyries that don't count against the reserve allocation balance (I think anyway, the rules aren't completely clear). It would also give Elysians access to psykers although the Primaris, lacking access to Divination, is largely as useless as he was before. Speaking of Divination GK, DA and BA all get it. Coteaz-led Grey Knights are the easiest to ally with (for me) since henchmen are similar to IG units - I find allying with other mainstream troops such as Tacticals or Strike Squads to be aesthetically unappealing, especially if they're as stigmatized as the GK are. However Coteaz (or a Librarian from the aforementioned chapters) can be a huge force multiplier for Guard. If you give the Divination powers a once-over you'll see what I mean. Coteaz is the most efficient and the one I'll likely be taking in my lists from here on out. His blessings won't work on the C:IG units but his own henchmen will likely comprise my entire ground force anyway. As a final note Death Company make a great ally choice - both because they can fill the requisite troop slot for just 60 points and because a large squad is VERY durable and can hold out until flyer reinforcements arrive. Rage changing to a benefit made these guys awesome.

- Units:

- The Vendetta! It was great before it's awesome now. Heavy bolters on this chassis is a steal for ten points giving it 9 shots that it can fire nearly always (since vehicles are very hard to stunlock now). The Valkyrie pales once again by comparison although the expected 40k "infantry revolution" may change this. As long as flyers (especially those necron croissants) are an issue the Vendetta will be on top. Caution: Your opponent will do everything he can to kill these and when he inevitably does everyone inside will die. It is spectacular how lethal flyers are to their occupants. Getting passengers out is very difficult given that 'Hover' mode is tantamount to suicide - you will be assaulted and almost anything can kill a vendetta in one go. You may have thought AirCav was a finese army before but now it's truly an art.

- The Stormraven. An ally but one that both the GK and the BA can give us and one that scores 1/6th of the time. The GK Stormraven with psybolt ammo is a BEAST! 3 str 6 shots from the nose heavy bolter + 4 str 7 from the Assault Cannon + a potential 12 str 5 from the Hurricane bolters = 19 twin-linked shots + rockets. Four(five) weapons means it can fire all of it on the move too. I keep mine empty because it is definitely a target!

- MeltaDemoVets: The old standby has lost a lot of its attractiveness for me. These guys die even faster now when they choose to jump out and may get their ride killed too. The extended assault ranges are devastating! I'm looking at possibly using a platoon in their stead giving me cheaper PCS, infantry and special weapons squads that are still scoring. However, I love the dependability of BS4 so these will be hard to give up.

- Plasma CCS: Officer w/ 2x Plasma Pistol, 4 guys with plasma guns and carapace for the lot (don't forget the Astropath!). 185 points for a "delete button" squad that will murder the new wave of monstrous creatures. Pricier than I'd like but you if plan ahead they might survive to kill more than one thing - new rapid fire rules really extends their range.

- Henchmen: Another ally unit but one that makes a great scoring presence, especially behind an Aegis defense line. I take mine with lots of toys - Storm bolters, plasma guns, plasma cannons and a couple of monkeys. Expensive but really powerful when combined with the Divination primaris power (re-rolls to hit) and Foreboding (overwatch at regular BS). Coteaz also grants them the 'I've been expecting you' which works like the Interceptor rule. That makes them a great counter to incoming flyers and drop pods too. They're very fragile but with experience I think these guys will solve my 50% reserve issue permanently.

- The Vulture: You'll probably have read the new FW updates so you now that the Vulture is now a beautiful death-dealing machine. The value of 4x MRP's has decreased since you can't fire any blast weapons after you evade but the twin punisher cannon just dominates. Effectively BS 4 against ground targets and pinning! Vector Dancer makes the Vulture the ultimate support choice to help your guys on the ground when and where they need it most.

- Emerging Dangers: I've written a lot already but I wanted to add just this last note on things that turned out to be more threatening to AirCav than a first glance could tell me. Firstly, GW has clarified that the wings and tail boom are all "hull" and therefore can't hang off the table. This effectively means that disembarking troops on the turn you arrive from reserve is only possible with Grav Chute insertion - very risky! Second: getting to objectives by the 5th turn has turned out to be very difficult. You have to clear the landing zone completely because anything assaulting your troops is likely to kill them - no more scoring from within a Vendetta that has moved flat out. Finally, due to the fragile nature of flyers in hover mode much of the game is spent with troops inside their rides doing nothing. This was also true in 5th but is even more important in 6th where 5/6 missions are objective based instead of 2/3. I would normally recommend combat capable troops in every list but anyone getting out of a transport cannot assault so no Straken to clear the way for the rest. This is an issue I have not solved and may be a lasting weakness in our lists for the rest of the edition.


Phew! So this turned out longer than I expected; I apologize. If you like, please let me know what your impressions are of 6th ed AirCav.

[plasticaddict]

I'm still adjusting my Air Cav a bit however I've been having good results thus far.

I've been dropping a Co Cmd Sqd w/Astropath behind an Aegis line with three units of Sentry guns scattered around them for some added staying power.

Outflanking Vendettas rock, the formerly useless HB upgrade is now an auto include.

My Vet Sqds are still Demo-Grenadiers humping shotguns, 2 meltas, a H-Flamer and Sgt with PP/PF.

I think being able to switch between Hover and Zoom every turn gives you a lot of flexibility. Just don't go into hover next to things that have a good chance of hurting you in assault.

FW has already made the call on Allies IG, Elysians, DKoK, etc are Battle Brothers.

I've been toying with the idea of running my Salamanders as allies to my IG, put them in a drop pod and you can still do a null deployment list that will have units on the table at the end of your turn. Of course this costs you the Astropath on the table decreasing your odds of getting everything on the table quickly.

[Atrotos]

I'm glad to hear someone else is doing well.

From your comments it seems you're running a pure codex IG AirCav? Elysians don't have an astropath for some reason. I was running an allied CCS to get access to the astropath but GW killed that in the FAQ. The Sentry turrets seem really mediocre given their BS - do they really work for you?

You've got some really expensive Vet squads! I'm wondering how you're getting them to the objectives alive (since you likely only have a few of them, maybe 3 or 4 squads). My guys keep dying to Grav Chute insertion failures! Your guys are especially expensive given that their carapace is doing nothing for them when their ride gets shot down.

It is very true that having access to Hover is huge but not being able to hover on the table and disembark is giving me a lot of trouble. It's costing me games really.

The Drop Pod ally is something I've considered but it won't work against other Drop armies if you're forced to play second. Deamons and real drop pod lists will wipe you out on their turn one and you'll lose. Or you'll be forced to deploy your fragile troops on the table and risk losing them. Elysians really need some kind of Drop Pod assault rule so they can be truly airborne.

[plasticaddict]

Yes, I run codex IG and I do agree that Elysians should get a Drop Pod Assault style deployment. The Sentry guns are mediocre, however they are cheap and their main job is to put more meat on the table to help insure I don't lose before the bulk of my forces arrive. I don't know why you feel you need to immediately disembark, I have units that don't unass until turn 4 or 5 every game. Counting all of fifth I think I've used Grav Chutes twice (?) maybe three times. I always run an empty Vendetta or 2 and put them closest to the enemy AA when I come in, then the empty one has to go down before they can start hurting the one carrying troops.

[Atrotos]

I ran IG all through 5th ed - 5 Vendettas, Straken, MeltaDemoVets and all that. Problem is, Vendettas don't really get the job done in 6th. My opponents usually have 50-90 scoring models on the table nowadays and frying them one at a time with Lascannons isn't gonna cut it (not even with the extra HB's). Then there's the issue of squadrons. Shooting at just 3 targets with virtually my entire army only barely worked in 5th when you could start shooting on turn one. With the restrictions in movement I can't see how you can choreograph 5 or 6 planes, always moving 18 inches, pivoting correctly, staying in coherency and making sure troops are getting where they need to be. You mentioned how powerful hover mode is but in my experience hover mode is tantamount to suicide.

Squadrons are more resilient now but when I tried to run my old AirCav list in 6th I found it was too risky when facing other lists with flyers. Nightscythes, Vendettas, FMC's shooting rear armor and Stormravens are all shooting multiple shots - I've even had a full 3-bird Vendetta squadron go down to one enemy Vendetta, along with everyone inside.

My experimenting has led me to believe that codex: IG simply can't produce a solid AirCav list. The problems I had included:

1. Poor reserve rolls. Rolling a 1 on a Vendetta Squadron keeps something like 400-500 points off the table. Rolling two 1's - ugh.
2. No close combat unit to dig units out of cover and off objectives. I relied on a beefed-up CCS to do this in 5th but now that you can't assault when you disembark that plan no longer works. Shooting enemies off of objectives becomes the only option, barring allies. If you only have three squadrons and there's two enemy models left on the objective it forces you to commit one squadron to get them off.

This is why I want my guys to disembark when their rides come in - to make the most of the alpha strike before the enemy can retaliate, and be able to engage double the targets to overcome MSU. It also prevents Crash and burn and being forced off the table when the plane can no longer maneuver.

3. The Vulture is no longer a heavy support choice - this would have fixed the squadron issue. As it stands the Vulture is now awesome but competes with the Vendetta for an FOC slot.

What is it that you feel makes codex: IG the stronger choice for AirCav?

The Elysians miss out on a bunch of stuff, but their list provides synergy. I can take Homing Beacons everywhere to overcome Grav Chute suicide, there's no squadrons and I can have Vendettas and Vultures in the same list. I may be wrong, but I feel the astropath isn't worth missing out on all that - better just to have more reserve rolls so that the dice even out.

[plasticaddict]

Must be the local meta, I haven't had any problems clearing objectives with my birds. Not being able to assault right out of the bird hasn't been to much of a problem either. My big thing is just edging out the win, I don't try to cover all of the objectives. I like the Elysian list but a Valkyrie DT isn't a vendetta and as far as the Vulture goes the only weapon option that makes any sense is the TL punisher cannon, something I consider a sub par weapon load at best for a dedicated gunship. My goal is to go second in most games or bring my planes on behind my opponents, something the comms relay for the Aegis line helps with quite a bit. The only time I'll run my list as Elysians is in an Apoc game, but then I get to bring out all my toys so having flyers scattered around the table is just fun. I'll also mention I haven't actually lost a bird with troops on board yet so I don't have the fear of losing them you seem to have picked up. That may change in the future, but then again they are IG dying in the name of The Emperor is their job

[Atrotos]

Would you mind posting your list?

Do you play against Daemon Flying Circus or CronAir? Do you face a lot of troop spam?

I get my butt wooped by Daemons with virtually every list I take - unless they get their bad wave; then I roll over them. Killing 50+ dudes in power armor with an airborne list is also tough and only becomes manageable with the Vultures and Demo Charges. Finally, I get absolutely pwned by St. Celestine because she burns my troops one at a time and there's nothing you can do to stop her.

The Vulture is also good with TL Lascannon and 6 Hunterkillers but only because it's effectively BS4. I only end up taking that load out if my FA is filled with Tauros Venators which are also very good.

[Kirsten]

as far as the Vulture goes the only weapon option that makes any sense is the TL punisher cannon, something I consider a sub par weapon load at best for a dedicated gunship.

there is nothing at all sub par about twin linked punisher cannons, I run two vultures with them and they shred anything and everything they come across

[Atrotos]

I think he meant it's sub-par that a "gunship" only has one decent weapon loadout.

[Kirsten]

possibly. the four rocket pods are good though, and you get to make whooshing noises when you fire it. It is rather outclassedin the anti tank department by teh vendetta though. I have five valkyries, two vendettas, two vultures, and an avenger, but not yet fielded them all as an elysian army (mainly because I haven't finished building the infantry yet). I have thirty elysians, a mortar squad, junior command squad, senior command squad, and two venators. the three squads and one venator are built so far.