Yes Zombies can go to 35, stupid being stupid people!

[DarkLink]

Not if it refers specifically to individual models. Individually, there are Cultists and a Cultist Champion. Collectively, they are a unit of Chaos Cultists. You can't have your cake and eat it too. There are quite a few examples of this in various other codices and FAQs, where one member of a unit can't take certain upgrades because they're a different type of model from the rest of the unit, and yes, GW has verified several of these cases in the FAQ/Erratas.

And your argument that the "can't take options" doesn't apply until you decide it does, and thus you can just write down "35 Chaos Cultist" then go back and erase Cultists and write in Zombies is bull****. By that logic, you may take any and all options available to Chaos Cultists and just completely ignore the "can't take options" rule.

[DF3CT]

Individually they are Chaos Cultists.

[daboarder]

Actually Darklink I don't think the chaos champion IS a zombie, By your own admission the wording for what a model is is very specific.

the UNIT is nominated a a plague zombie unit.

any chaos cultist unitsin the same army as typhus may be nominated as Plague zombies

The cultists become plague zombies But the Champion doesn't in accordance with the next line.

Plague zombies are CHAOS CULTISTS that have the fearless, Feel no pain, Slow and purposeful special rules and cannot purchace options

So you have as per the rules a unit made up of Chaos Cultists that are now Plague zombies led by a Cultist Champion

Then the individual cultists cannot purchase options but the champion can he is never turned into a plague zombie as he is NOT a Chaos Cultist. as such the unit can also buy additional members, you've just proved his point.

It is the EXACT same reasoning behind THIS entry that has no argument in the terminator entry

Any chaos terminator may choose one of the following three options

The above means that the Terminator Champion may not take the follwoing options, it is the same as the zombie entry.

case solved.

If you want to argue that its not specific then explain why a terminator champion may not take a heavy weapon, or a space marine sergeant, or Sanguinary initiates may not take upgrade.

[DarkLink]

You're still jumping to the conclusion that Chaos Cultists refers to individual models, without any actual justification. Someone pointed out that discrepancy earlier, and I brought it up as a point of reductio ad absurdum; it just doesn't make sense that everyone except Sarge got infected and turned into a zombie, implying that Chaos Cultists is intended to refer to the entire unit so that everyone becomes a Zombie. The fact that it is feasible that that is actually how it was intended is not an argument for actual intent, any more than it is an argument against it.

But it's still ambiguous. It doesn't clearly state that it refers to individual models, so you can't clearly back up that argument, and then you just run into the problem that additional bodies are unquestionably Options.



So, basically, extra bodies are Options. You can't functionally argue with that.

If Chaos Cultists refers to the unit, then the unit can't take Options and thus is limited to 10 members, end of story.

If Chaos Cultists refers to individual models, then the Sergeant is unchanged, and you might be able to argue that, even though extra bodies are clearly an Option, that the singular Chaos Cultists are merely limited from taking individual Options


Frankly, I find the latter argument to be extremely sketch. Any interpretation of the rules that can not be explained definitively and explicitly backed up, and requires a couple loopholes that seem highly unusual, indicates rules lawyer-ism in the bad sense to me, even if it is done with good intentions. Simply put, it quite clearly states No Options, and you seem to be trying to squirm around that to try and justify taking something that is, in fact, clearly labeled as an Option.

Don't bother trying to pull a bull**** argument out of thin air. GW messed up. GW should FAQ it. And if GW doesn't, houserule it. None of this sketchy "well I think you can take options, because if you assume this and this and this, and ignore this and this, and disregard these precedents and only focus on these ones, then you can theoretically do something it directly states you cannot do".


You should be able to take lots of zombies. I just can't buy the sketchy argument that tries to let you. Just be honest and houserule it.

[daboarder]

You're still jumping to the conclusion that Chaos Cultists refers to individual models, without any actual justification. Someone pointed out that discrepancy earlier, and I brought it up as a point of reductio ad absurdum; it just doesn't make sense that everyone except Sarge got infected and turned into a zombie, implying that Chaos Cultists is intended to refer to the entire unit so that everyone becomes a Zombie. The fact that it is feasible that that is actually how it was intended is not an argument for actual intent, any more than it is an argument against it.

Precedence?

how else are we supposed to determine what its taking about other than the given names? It works the same for EVERY SINGLE UNIT ENTRY IN THE GAME, why would this be the sole exception?

[DarkLink]

But again, is it unit or model name?

You can't make a clear and obvious argument for either, so I have to call bull on handwaving the No Options rule and simply ignoring part of it. The logical part of my mind can't justify dodging around rules because I feel like they should be different.

So, again, just be honest and call it a houserule until it is FAQ'd.

[daboarder]

well considering it doesnt use the word UNIT, like every other instance of a rule where they talk about the UNIT. I would say that the rule is talking about the MODELS.

[DarkLink]

Being at work I don't have my book to hand, but normally, there is a sub heading within the unit entry saying 'options'.

If memory serves, increasing the size of the unit does not normally come listed under this?

No, it actually says pretty much exactly this:

Options:
May add up to twenty-five additional Chaos Cultists...4pts each
...etc

It's literally the first thing directly under Options.

[daboarder]

No, it actually says pretty much exactly this:



It's literally the first thing directly under Options.

HE I'd Right but it's irrelevant as we can show the limit on options only applies to specific models. The rule never states that the unit may not buy option only specific models that make up a part thereof (but not the entirety)

That second sentence is an entirely new sentence. It's the only line that governs whO cannot take options and it makes no mention of the unit.

[NurglesBloatedEgo]

omg this is dumb... they can only take 10 zombies in a squad gw will faq it and we will be able to take 35...until they do, bite the bullet and call it a house rule. everyone who is argueing for 35 zombies in a squad is going to just do it anyway because they want to, so instead of doing the dick move and argueing about it, just tell your opponent "this is an issue that has the internet community split, can we agree that for our game i can use 35 zombies in a squad?" if the opponent says yes, go for it...if the opponent says no, well then it is up to you as a player to decide if the guy is being a dick and you dont want to play him because of it, or to bite the bullet and just take 10 man squads. your decision, just stop *****ing about it and get on with playing the game instead of flame waring about it