vector strike questions

[harveydent]

Is a Vector Strike a close combat attack or a shooting attack?

...or is it neither?

Do you get a cover save against it?

[Tynskel]

no, no, no.

It is essentially a close combat attack, but not. It is a shooting attack, but isn't.
You do not get a cover save because it is essentially a close combat attack. However, it isn't truly like a close combat attack, because it doesn't benefit from close combat bonuses. However, how the attack is administered is by physically bashing the opponent, of which p.26 states you cannot hide from someone physically hitting you.

Q: Can a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature make a Vector Strike against a Zooming Flyer? (p49)
A: Yes.
Q: When a model makes a Vector Strike or Hammer of Wrath, do these attacks benefit from any special rules (such as Furious Charge, Poisoned or Rending), or any weapons or other wargear it is equipped with? (p37/43)
A: No.

[Houghten]

Which is odd, because bladevanes state that you can hide from someone physically hitting you.

[Tynskel]

Point.

Although, you could imaging people diving out of the way of the blade vanes.

It is kinda hard to dive out of the way of something grabbing you...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzKulXCsFM4[/url]

[Sly]

You can only take cover saves from Shooting attacks in general, plus those attacks that specifically say that you can. Vector Strike is not a Shooting attack, and it does not state that you can take Cover Saves.

[Houghten]

While "shooting attacks only" would make things blissfully simple to understand, it's not what the rules say. The rules say "not close combat attacks" (BRB, page 26) and "not dangerous terrain" (BRB, page 90). Vector Striking is none of the above.

Now, if you have a thing you can do, and a list of exceptions to that thing, and this is not on the list of exceptions... what are you supposed to think?

[Nabterayl]

Now, if you have a thing you can do, and a list of exceptions to that thing, and this is not on the list of exceptions... what are you supposed to think?

I'm actually inclined to agree with Houghten on this one, from a textual standpoint. I agree with Tynskel that Vector Strikes are probably supposed to be like close combat attacks in that they disallow cover saves, but I also agree that the rules are written such that you are only disallowed cover saves when explicitly told so.

If you want to imagine a reason why cover saves would apply to a Vector Strike, I don't think that's actually too hard. It is harder for an aerial predator to grab prey that is taking cover in vegetation than to grab prey in the open, as many rodents and smaller birds know. It's certainly not weird to imagine that an airplane taking evasive maneuvers is harder to grab than one that isn't. And so forth.

[harveydent]

I guess my line of reasoning for figuring this out is as follows:

1) check the rules
2) check the faqs
3) find examples with which to compare
4) rule out examples that are dissimilar
5) corroborate examples that are similar

so i checked C:CSM and the BRB, checked the faqs for both C:CSM and the BRB, and came to the idea that it didn't fall into any category.

i found examples that might compare in the BRB (tank shock) and in C:Nec (sweep attack), because these seemed to be examples that most closely resembled vector strike.

the BRB pretty much states that attacks made by models that are touching are not shooting attacks, and since tank shock implies that vehicles touch other models because they must stop their movement when they come into contact before potentially continuing their movement, vector strike wasn't similar enough.

and then i moved on to the most similar attack to vector strike - sweep attack - from the necron catacomb command barge, which requires that the CCB 'pass over' the model it's attacking (it starts and ends its movement without touching the affected model). the rules for the CCB also state that cover saves may not be taken against the sweep attack.

[Tynskel]

the rules for blade vanes are different, right? I thought blade vanes state 'move near' as opposed to 'move over'. Vector Strike's language is basically the same thing as sweep attack, whereas blade vanes is not.

[Houghten]

Well, the latest main rulebook FAQ has definitively ended the argument. No cover saves allowed!