Nemesis force stave

[Warp dust]

Does the Nemesis Force Stave count as unusual giving it ap3 in addition to its rule or does it grant +2 strength and is ap4 concussive under the force stave rules? Sorry my first post was in the wrong section.

[Nabterayl]

It's Unusual. The amended Nemesis rule on page 54 states, "Unless otherwise stated, all Nemesis weapons are Unusual Force Weapons."

So a Nemesis Warding Stave is an SUser AP3 Melee Daemonbane Force weapon that grants a 2+ invulnerable save to the wielder against blows caused in close combat.

People often forget that the way a weapon is modeled has no effect, by itself, on that weapon's abilities. Remember, 60 says, "If a model's wargear says it has a Force weapon that has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of Force weapon it has." Only if the weapon is a plain force weapon do we care what it looks like. Nemesis Warding Staves very clearly have two special rules (Daemonbane and the 2++ effect), so they are not "Force staves" within the meaning of page 60.

[Warp dust]

Thanks, that makes sense.

[Wildcard]

Nabterayl has it almost right, with only one error (that is huge, and generally is the reason why someone would take the stave or not):

grants a 2+ invulnerable save to the wielder against blows caused in close combat<- This is false.

Quote from the Grey Knights FaQ:

Q: Can the save granted by a Nemesis warding stave be taken against all Wounds suffered whilst the wielder is engaged in close combat and not only against Wounds caused by close combat attacks?(p.54)

A: Yes

So, according to this (and if followed by the usual hierarchy of codex overruling main rulebook), this would mean that no matter what wound is allocated to a model with the stave, he is taking 2++ save against it.

And then you can start to argue that the save can be taken against wounds that normally doesn't allow a save to be taken, perils of the warp for example. But that is a road i would not tread for now

[Demonus]

well yes but he must be engaged in close combat correct? so you couldnt receive a 2++ save vs a melta pistol shot, however if he was in combat, and a ap1 template scattered onto him, he could in fact take his 2++.

[Nabterayl]

well yes but he must be engaged in close combat correct? so you couldnt receive a 2++ save vs a melta pistol shot, however if he was in combat, and a ap1 template scattered onto him, he could in fact take his 2++.

That's my understanding, yeah. As long as the wielder is in close combat he gets a 2++. It's not a 2++ vs. Melee attacks, it's a regular 2++ that only turns on in CC.