Jim Carry, Owns American Gun Nuts.

[eldargal]

Trapping is actually less efficient, more time consuming, expensive and can cause significant distress to the animal. Not to mention collateral damage on non pest species that get caught in traps.

Game meat contamination is minor and is really only a problem with the very young, pregnant women and those with impaired immune systems. It's a far smaller problem than salmonella and contamination in industrial food.

The Department Agriculture and Rural Development has a [URL="http://www.dardni.gov.uk/ruralni/pests_series_cmb.pdf"]decent pdf[/URL] on the subject with the pros and cons of traps and shooting and so on for various pests.

[Magpie]

The Department Agriculture and Rural Development has a [URL="http://www.dardni.gov.uk/ruralni/pests_series_cmb.pdf"]decent pdf[/URL] on the subject with the pros and cons of traps and shooting and so on for various pests.

Every single one of those recommendations suggest something other than shooting, including trapping and in many cases say that shooting is not the most efficient method of control.

By the way I'd also just like everyone to take particular note of : "It must be stressed, however, that current research shows that the increased numbers of Magpies are not responsible for the loss or decline in songbird populations"

[eldargal]

I'm not sure if you are a troll or simple. It gives a variety of recommendations INCLUDING shooting because a variety of methods is more effective than just one. In some cases shooting is not the most effective method, certainly not for smaller birds. But for others it is either solely or used in conjunction with other methods.

[Magpie]

I'm not sure if you are a troll or simple.

Excuse me? I might be simple but I am at least able to read.

The principal method of controlling rabbits is by gassing the burrows

Shooting is the most selective and also a very effective method of fox
control. It must be carried out by skilled, authorised persons at all
times

The most effective method of controlling mink is trapping.

The best method of controlling rats is baiting

Baiting is the most effective method for controlling mice populations.

A farmer can shoot any dog which is worrying

Grey crows, magpies and jackdaws can be controlled by cage trapping,
shooting or nest destruction. Best results are obtained by a combination of
all three.

Feral pigeons can be controlled by shooting using a .22 air rifle.
Shooting woodpigeons tends to be less effective.

Starlings should be excluded from livestock housing. Shooting
alone is of little use against great numbers of starlings and bangers also
often fail.


So of the 9 controls mentioned only 1 puts shooting forward as the most effective and in that case a suggestion is made that it needs to be done by professional shooters, 1 is an allowance to shoot dogs but make no comment on whether that is the best solution and of the other times shooting is mentioned it is in the context of "can" be useful but other more effective methods are listed.

[scadugenga]

Excuse me? I might be simple but I am at least able to read.

The principal method of controlling rabbits is by gassing the burrows

Shooting is the most selective and also a very effective method of fox
control. It must be carried out by skilled, authorised persons at all
times

The most effective method of controlling mink is trapping.

The best method of controlling rats is baiting

Baiting is the most effective method for controlling mice populations.

A farmer can shoot any dog which is worrying

Grey crows, magpies and jackdaws can be controlled by cage trapping,
shooting or nest destruction. Best results are obtained by a combination of
all three.

Feral pigeons can be controlled by shooting using a .22 air rifle.
Shooting woodpigeons tends to be less effective.

Starlings should be excluded from livestock housing. Shooting
alone is of little use against great numbers of starlings and bangers also
often fail.


So of the 9 controls mentioned only 1 puts shooting forward as the most effective and in that case a suggestion is made that it needs to be done by professional shooters, 1 is an allowance to shoot dogs but make no comment on whether that is the best solution and of the other times shooting is mentioned it is in the context of "can" be useful but other more effective methods are listed.

Your willful ignorance makes this thread painful to read. Wild dogs are excessively dangerous. That's why farmers can shoot them. Tell you what...go hunt a bear without a gun. Let us know how that works for you. Or, more aptly let us know what paper to monitor for your posthumous Darwin Award.

[Deadlift]

Let's be polite(ish) guys, BOLS has a rep for being a bit cooler than the other forums. We don't want 2 threads locked in 2 days really do we

[eldargal]

The principle means of controlling rabbit is by gassing the burrows when the option is available and feasible. Can't do it here, too much coverage for holes and badgers around.

Farmers are considered skilled, authorised people.

Yes you don't shoot mink or other small vermin.

Again you seem to be assuming that because for some animals and in some situations shooting isn't the mot effective that somehow it has no use at all. It's just plain silly. A gun is not the be all and end all of pest control, but it is an important part of it.

[Wildeybeast]

It's very easy to look back and say we shouldn't have exterminated the wolves but that was pre-industrial farming, wolves killing off your cattle could literally be the death of you and your family.

Wolves spread back accross Europe during and after WWII because of the vast amount of fences destroyed and probably the fact people were otherwise occupied and it did a lot of good for the ecosystem. I think re-introducing them here would be a good idea. Some people want to re-introduce bears as well. Wolves were very rare here as early as the 16th century, we did have firearms then but they weren't exactly precise.

I wasn't suggesting we reintroduce wolves as a method of population control and it would be impractical and dangerous to do so on a large scale. The attempts so far have been within entirely fenced areas so they can't get out into the countryside at large. My point was we have a habit of wiping out species in the name of 'protecting livestock' and it just creates more problems (like an increase in 'pest species). Sea Eagles (specifically white-tailed ones) weren't wiped out until the early 20th century, under the laughable notion that they posed a significant threat to sheep. Even now they have been successfully reintroduced there are still morons going around killing them. Next on the extinction list of 'threats to livestock' are badgers because it's cheaper the vaccination. At what point are people going to realise that wiping out species for financial reasons just creates more problems in the long run?

I actually agree that using guns for 'population control' is one of the more effective and humane methods, my point is that we need a radical revaluation of what 'population control' is and why we are doing it.

[imperialpower]

Sigh. My point was people killed off the predators to protect livestock and now there are no natural controls on 'pests' so now we are 'culling' them to protect livestock. I'm just wondering at what stage people are going to realise that decimating the ecosystem has serious consequences for the environment and that perhaps there are better ways of doing it. I couldn't give a toss if you shoot, poison, starve or strangle the native fauna with your bare hands, my issue is with the idea that 'protection of livestock' gives humanity the right to go around obliterating entire species at will. Oh and imperial power, wolves weren't wiped out until the mid 17th century, there were plenty of guns around by then.

Yea I got your point and even said in my post that it was a short sighted view to kill off species to protect Human livestock and I also said that MOST predatory species were whiped out before the gun arrived so your point about wolves was random, so really I agreed with your point that as a species we have no right to pick and choose what animals should live or die. I also said that in our current enviroment (given that there are no major predatory species left) that guns are a useful tool and are needed to cull animals such as deer so from reading your posts it would seem we share a similiar opinion so sigh to you too.

[Nabterayl]

If I can express a bit of American incredulity, has this thread really devolved into debating whether it's good policy for farmers to have guns for the purpose of shooting wild animals?

Is that actually up for debate in the British public consciousness?