How To Kill Helldrakes (Works On Most Fliers):

[MajorWesJanson]

It says exactly what we think it says, because that's what it says! You're wrong, get over it.

Just ignore the troll.

That's about the most closed minded statement I have ever read. You must be very proud of yourself...

Though I can't quite resist that setup:
"An open mind is like a fortress with the gates unbarred and unguarded."

[Caitsidhe]

@OP, just because it's the consensus, it doesn't make it right. I've been presenting facts, while others have been throwing tantrums and twisting the rules, all to their own benefit. This entire argument revolves around the rule on page 80, go read it, it doesn't say what you might think it says. Don't just go along with what everyone else is saying, dare to be different, even if others try to grind you down because of it...

In this case (games) it kind of does make it right. If 99% of the world plays the rule one way, it becomes "right" and will stay that way short of Games Workshop purposely changing it. You are free to feel however you want, and say it. You get down with your bad self. Just be aware that nobody is going to do it that way but you.

The recent millenial party back in 1999 is a good example. The ACTUAL millenial turn happened at midnight 2000, not 1999 when everyone had their parties and celebrated it. Just the same, if you had your party a year later (correct time/event) you were pretty much by yourself. I think you are wrong, but even if you were right it would be irrelevant. If I thought you were right I would "dare to be different" as you put it, but I don't.

[Blusox69]

The way I read it, the weapon used by the Helldrake during the vector Strike is the Helldrake itself, and not the weapon in its mouth, therefore it can use the mouth weapon in the shooting phase as one of its 3 remaining attacks 1 having being used up in the vector strike.

I think the confusion is over what weapon it attacks with in the vector strike, which is in fact it's own body/mass. It even says in the BRB that a vector strike uses the models unmodified strength and an AP of 3, not any of the models weapon stats.

[ted1138]

The way I read it, the weapon used by the Helldrake during the vector Strike is the Helldrake itself, and not the weapon in its mouth, therefore it can use the mouth weapon in the shooting phase as one of its 3 remaining attacks 1 having being used up in the vector strike.

I think the confusion is over what weapon it attacks with in the vector strike, which is in fact it's own body/mass. It even says in the BRB that a vector strike uses the models unmodified strength and an AP of 3, not any of the models weapon stats.

True, VS is not a shooting attack, but there are no "3 remaining attacks", there is no rule that gives Zooming Flyers the ability to fire four times.

And @ Caitsidhe, blindly going along with the crowd, and ignoring all reason and logic, does not make you right, if it did, the world would be flat!

[Mr Mystery]

Actually, not even Columbus, or his sponsors considered the world to be flat.

Pear Shaped, yes. But the 'flat earth' theory is something of an ubran myth.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Heres the best way to kill a Hell Drake, or even any flyer for that matter.

1.Take a Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun and Power Klaw and Attack Squig and cybork body,

2.get him onto an objective with Skyfire, and Target the Zooming flyer,

3. Roll duo 5's and then Assault the Zooming flyer at Str 9 ap2, flyer=Krump'd

4. Flyer crash and burns, with Big Mek counting as transported (so he would take the str 10 hit)

And then repeat four times if your points value are 2,000+ and you got some effective Orky AA

[Caitsidhe]

And @ Caitsidhe, blindly going along with the crowd, and ignoring all reason and logic, does not make you right, if it did, the world would be flat!

A disucssion of absolute reality versus perceptual reality belongs in its own thread. It suffices to say that Mr. Mystery touched on the Flat Earth myth accurately. I wanted to be nice but you are forcing me to put your view on the rule another way which might bring it home to you.

There is a name for people who view reality (or in this case rules) one way in absolute defiance of everyone else. Are you honestly suggesting you are the only sane person in a crazy world?

[Blusox69]

@ted1138

BRB page 80, last paragraph in bold

"Zooming Flyers can fire up to four of their weapons using their full ballistic skill if they have moved at either combat speed or cruising speed that turn"

???

[Power Klawz]

The obvious answer to this incorrect assertion is that the vector strike constitutes a separate weapon from whatever is mounted in the drakes mouth as evinced by the fact that there is no current precedent which allows you to or forces you to substitute one weapon for another in this circumstance. You are adding unncessary layers of arbitration to the process and therefore coming to an incorrect conclusion.

Vector striking means that the drake counts as firing a weapon in the next shooting phase.

A zooming flyer can fire up to 4 weapons at full BS in the shooting phase. A zooming heldrake which has vector striked in its previous movement phase counts as having fired one weapon, this is a conceptual weapon and is not directly represented in the units profile, it does not need to be. It counts as firing a weapon, it is a general action and it most certainly does not replace or circumvent any other weapon because NO SUCH RULE EXISTS OR IS IMPLIED.

The heldrake has a single weapon mounted on it, if it wishes to fire it after vector striking it may do so since it only counts as having fired a single "weapon" and thus may fire a second to no ill effect.

Take the converse, if the drake had experienced a weapon destroyed result due to damage and lost its baleflamer or autocannon, could it still vector strike? The answer is obviously yes because a vector strike is not a baleflamer or an autocannon, and the loss of such weapons does not impact the drake's ability to vector strike.

Now take an even simpler view and realize the obvious intent behind the rule. If it were the designers intent to make vector striking an either/or situation THEY WOULD HAVE SPECIFICALLY STATED SO.

Or in less words,

No

Move along now

[Mr Mystery]

PK.....you sure about the tellporta assault?

I'm, for some reason, under the impression the Shokk Attak gun is a blast weapon, and thus can't target Fliers?