Eldar Codex: So, What Do You Think Of It?

[HERO]

Lets not forget to mock his sense of dress and general girth... his neck beard is not sufficiently puffed!

All jokes aside however, this guy sounds a LOT like Stelek off Dakka and BOK/Kirby/3++ all those sites. basically "this list" works, everything else is crap, and you are retarded if you think otherwise.

As for the actual codex I'm really looking forward to trying a mobile gunline/mech hybrid list see how that works for me. (I really want to use guardians en mass ala ulthwe.

Actually, I never said anything remotely close to that. There's tons of options in the Eldar book; which is why I said the internal balance is solid. What makes me angry is the shoddy design elsewhere.

I feel like this is the fifth time I've said the same thing. Somewhere down the line, it'll catch on.

Let's try it again:
The internal balance is fine.
I never said the book sucks.
There are plenty of player options.
I do not think the book will be powerful in 6th; it will be in the middle of the pack.
I am, however, disappointed at many of the design choices in the book.

Is that clear enough? Probably not, because I think my entire argument of "the design sucks" somehow translates to "this book sucks" for a lot of people. This is not an easy fix, and I'm willing to accept that.

[chicop76]

Oh, yeah, Reece is awesome. If you ever get a chance to hang out with him, do it. I've only met Tasteytaste a couple of time, but he seems like a pretty cool guy, too. Stelek, though... I feel like washing my hands after just mentioning his name.

A lot of "experts" also tend to ignore a lot of softer aspects of the game (not the hobby stuff, but the stuff you can't define with mathhammer). I can't say how many times I've heard people say Draigowing is crap because mathmatically MSU Grey Knights can utilize their firepower more efficiently, yet somehow Blackmoor and others keep winning (though that's more of a 5th ed thing). There are some definite disadvantages to having a limited number of elite units, but there are some big advantages as well that often get ignored.

Besides, Goatboy seems to to the exact opposite of what 3++ and Stelek are convinced is the only possible way to ever win in 40k, and look at how many tournaments he's won. It's funny how taking a list that has lots of tactical options, even if it doesn't sacrifice everything for maximum firepower, allows a good tactician to pull off stuff a more straightforward list couldn't do.

It boils down to a lot if things. Experance and tactics more often will win games. A winning list is what gives you options. Since 5th edition I have been try to play with smaller list. The problem with larger list you lose in tournaments due to time. Also taking objectives is key. Greyknights have a lot of options and can build many differant ways. What's unique is either they can scout or they can have even a dreadnought capable of scoring.

That is one thing I missed about my old sisters vs draigowing they actually do well. Simply due to a ton on strength 8 ap 1 all over the place and rending shooting attacks. Since the sister's ummm lost of power they have a tougher time against that build. My guard welocmes it. They have more melta and lascannons do you have models in your army.

Anyway I didn't say it would be an eazy win. Just some armies can deal with them better. The reason Grey Knights do sooo well is they are space marine killers, they kill space marines better than they kill daemons. Grey Knights should be called Space Marine Hunters. Since everyone plays marines they dominate due to the army is very well equiped to kill space marine. Not saying if they face nids or orcs it's an auto loss for knights. Just saying knights have a grand ole time beating up on marine armies, strength 5 ap 5 firing hurts hordes as well. Why the srength 5, guess they wanted to be Tau and force weapons came from khorne.

What is a tool anyway? I guess it's someone that is useful. Since tools are important to get a project done.

[deinol]

It's funny. An internally balanced book with lots of player choices that is balanced against other 6e books (ie, "middle of the pack" sounds like really good design to me. It all depends on what your design goals are.

My only complaint about the book is Banshees really deserve plasma grenades.

[chicop76]

It's funny. An internally balanced book with lots of player choices that is balanced against other 6e books (ie, "middle of the pack" sounds like really good design to me. It all depends on what your design goals are.

My only complaint about the book is Banshees really deserve plasma grenades.

Daemonette deserve to be I 6, assault grenades, and have defensive grenades. I can live without the other stuff like fearless and leadership 10. I would like grenades back for Daemonettes.

[Idaho11]

What counter-argument do you have for me girl?

And slightly misogynistic. You seem like a pleasure...

[cebalrai]

I do not think the book will be powerful in 6th; it will be in the middle of the pack.
I am, however, disappointed at many of the design choices in the book.

Really? I'm thinking the Codex is overall more powerful than Demons, Dark Angels, and CSM. It's below Tau but I think that's largely because Tau are overpowered and stupid.

But here's the kicker - overall power levels do not necessarily translate to codex vs codex matchups. And I think Eldar are now in a very good position to really tee off on Space Marine types in so many ways. And Hordish Orks and Nids don't seem like too much of an obstacle. The main threats to us are 5e Codexes that got an inadvertent bump moving to 6e. Let's see what Imperial Guard look like when they get updated them come back and reevaluate Eldar.

[deinol]

Daemonette deserve to be I 6, assault grenades, and have defensive grenades. I can live without the other stuff like fearless and leadership 10. I would like grenades back for Daemonettes.

Defensive grenades seems like an odd thing to have. Aren't all daemons fearless? That's just consistency. But this is a thread about Eldar, I care not about your filthy spawn.

[Defenestratus]

I seen a battle report that was interesting.

The player used tank shocking ram prows on his raiders with dark eldar with conjection with the new eldar plane with terrify. He force the guard/ eldar player to lose a chunk of his army. He was playing a seer council and managed -3 leadership on one of the space marine squads.

Tank shocking multiple squads with terrify looked to be pretty good against aegis shield back to the edge armies. I learned with my 4th edition Tau to not be back on the edge a long time ago.

I've always wanted to try that tactic with tank shocking wave serpents.

[HERO]

Really? I'm thinking the Codex is overall more powerful than Demons, Dark Angels, and CSM. It's below Tau but I think that's largely because Tau are overpowered and stupid.

But here's the kicker - overall power levels do not necessarily translate to codex vs codex matchups. And I think Eldar are now in a very good position to really tee off on Space Marine types in so many ways. And Hordish Orks and Nids don't seem like too much of an obstacle. The main threats to us are 5e Codexes that got an inadvertent bump moving to 6e. Let's see what Imperial Guard look like when they get updated them come back and reevaluate Eldar.

Are you comparing them to 6th Ed. books only? I'm looking at everything in 6th Ed., including all the older books as well. As it stands, I think they're in the middle of the pack. Here's hoping for no more Tau-level books.

[chicop76]

Really? I'm thinking the Codex is overall more powerful than Demons, Dark Angels, and CSM. It's below Tau but I think that's largely because Tau are overpowered and stupid.

But here's the kicker - overall power levels do not necessarily translate to codex vs codex matchups. And I think Eldar are now in a very good position to really tee off on Space Marine types in so many ways. And Hordish Orks and Nids don't seem like too much of an obstacle. The main threats to us are 5e Codexes that got an inadvertent bump moving to 6e. Let's see what Imperial Guard look like when they get updated them come back and reevaluate Eldar.

What you smoking. I want some.

I have yet to see Tau do well against flying circus and khorne hound rush. Not saying it can't, but dem khorne hounds is in your face. The problem with the hounds is you also have to deal with one or two bloodthirsters with them. Sigh.

I still see daemons, necrons, and grey knights win a lot in my area and that is with Tau. The only chaos marine armies is see is the ones taken as allies with daemons or necrons. Guess what the allies are eith a daemon prince or a helldrake. Thinking about it I haven't seen a full Chaos Marne army in awhile.

Heck eventhe reports I read pretty much say the above.

I would agree the Eldar is better than Dark Angels. We can disagree with Chaos Space Marins since they are really close with them. However if I see Eldar deal with a ton of hounds on top of princes and one or two thirsters than I will rank eldar higer. Typical hound rush is 40 hounds.

Oh! Daemons lost fearless. They have instability which makes them act like fearless from 5th edition. It's rarely happens since they rarely actually lose combat. Unles they are pink horrors or plague bearers. They all used to be 10 and was dropped to 7-9.

Banshees where obviously copied off the Daemonette material from 6th. If Daemonettes lost grenades I can see why they do the same to banshees. They are very similar except on have invulnerables and rending, while the other have power swords and a +4 save. In otherwords if banshee get grenades Damonettes should get them too. Hell all of Slaanech should.

I tell you what to be fair you should as them to give one of your vehicles that shoot barrage weapons to give assault counters to units they hit. If you assault that unit you get assault grenades. Sounds balanced to me.

I serously think the intention is for you to strike at the same time as defenders. I think they think it's too much for you to assault troops in terrain and give them -5 intitiative. At least my -5 is stackable if I get it or able to pass the psychic cheack on leadership 8.

I can see terrify working with wave serpents. Would be interesting with matrix as well. If you can get some leadership negative modifiers kicking around you can run peoples armies off the table. It might be a good way to kil an ethereal so you can be in the rear of the unit