LEGALWATCH: Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse Verdict

[Psychosplodge]

TBH I've never encountered anyone using non-GW models... But I only used to play with two or three people so...

[Defenestratus]

TBH I've never encountered anyone using non-GW models... But I only used to play with two or three people so...

If someone wanted to use this model as their Thousand Son's sorceror, what would you do?

[Caitsidhe]

It is like being annoyed that your N gauge train doesn't fit on a 00 gauge track. If you don't want to play 40k, play another game. You wouldn't play monopoly with money from the game of life.

If the denominations matched, what difference would it make?

So if you have healthy indie scene why do you want GW to run official tournaments?

I never said "I" did. I'm perfectly happy with how things have turned out. I'm saying that Games Workshop made a mistake in walking away because they lost their leverage.

Balance is a very subjective term. Look at all the mods for games that "re-balance" things and then if you consider how well balanced they are it is strange. But ultimately if you dislike the ruleset why not play PP or AT-48?

I do play those games and many more. Like I said, to me Wargaming is the hobby. I play 40K with my friends that want to play 40K when they want to play it. And we are perfectly ready, willing, and able to change whatever we want now that our local tournaments aren't beholden to anything.

[Herzlos]

The issue is that people want to play 40k without using 40k minatures. That is a little strange, it is akin to wanting to play Xbox games on your Playstation. Now I am not saying that it is wrong, but it seems strange to me.

It's more like using a chess set on a board that came with another set. Or using Fancy monopoly tokens instead of the standard game ones.

Or to use a car analogy; it's like a race track has a fleet of fords to use, and you wanting to drive your Viper instead.

I see nothing strange with wanting to use GW's games with non-GW models. But then the majority of my mini's are historicals where the rules manufacturer and mini's manufacturers are often different, if the rules manufacturer even makes minis. It goes to show how good GW's marketting has been when people assume the rules and mini's are interlocked somehow.

[chapterhousestudios]

Scratch that, something else.

CHS, as long as you're reading I've got a question. If I recall correctly, prior to the lawsuit you had been telling people to stop sending you messages akin to "Ooo gurl you gon git sued" because you had checked and were in the clear.

Right?

What happened with that? Were you given bad advice? Bad reading of the law on your own part?

I had good sound legal advice, and we based our operations on that advice for the most part. Much of that had to do with free use of trademarks, how to use them to describe compatibility and copyright law.

I think that is why we won most of the trademark claims that were actually at issue, especially concerning saying "compatible with x model".

[chapterhousestudios]

Yes I remember some comments that came across as rather arrogant before the trial started. I wish Nick from CHS would stop using the "Its all for the family, think of the kids" line. At the end of the day CHS flagrantly and knowingly broke the law as decided by a jury of their peers. What I never understood, is if it was all for the family why did CHS risk their livelihood in the manner they did, when only minor adjustments to their business practices would have avoided the whole thing as all the other bits manufacturers seemed to manage to do.

If it was for the principal, all well and good. If it was just to chance your arm, all well and good too.

I have nothing against CHS and have purchased from them in the past, it just irks me for some reason.

What you saw as arrogant many others saw as sticking to my guns and the legal opinion of the counsel I hired. Trade places for a second, what would you do if some stranger kept telling you how to do your job with no experience behind those opinions? As it is, I didnt attack or insult those posters, I told them that I had legal advice, and they didnt know what they were talking about (in so many words).

The Jury in this case, seems to have given GW some "winners" to appease them, that is how our side saw it, and there was a large amount of issues that the courts caused pertaining to evidence that should have been in front of the jury as well. This is why we are appealing.

And Im sorry if you disagree, but this is how I feed my kid and myself, so yes, it is about making a living. Its not a hobby, its a way to sustain myself.

[Caitsidhe]

So you are appealing? Your legal team is continuing forward with the appeal Pro Bono?

[chapterhousestudios]

So you are appealing? Your legal team is continuing forward with the appeal Pro Bono?

Yes we are appealing.

[Caitsidhe]

Yes we are appealing.

I actually thought there was a fair chance of that. It will be interesting to follow.

[Wolfshade]

Oh sorry Caitsidhe, I think I understand what point you are getting at (seperated by a common language).

Yes, I have no problem with people using non-GW stuff. As always the rule of cool prevails. Though I totally understand where it sounds like I am dead set against it.

In terms of mini vs. mini yes that is direct competition, but while it is a "substitution" it isn't an independent competition. After all, if suddenly GW dropped to competition we'd be in a vaccum without a game system. Obviously it wouldn't happen overnight but you would end up with 3rd party manufactures without a 1st party for them to substitute for. The business model is concerned with the continuation of the 1st party manufacture.

Consider people who make replacement parts for Saabs, now they are no longer in production the requirement for their parts drops.

What I was thinking of was a complete separate competition, like PP or whatever. With separate rule sets as they are the real challenge to GW as they can replace them, whereas the others which are based in the GW universe can only take a certain maximum of customers before their success is ultimately detrimental to the long term survivability.

I don't think the wargames sector will ever be large enough for the mass production driving down prices "stack em high sell em low" that you get with mass competition. Instead I think that the producers will come to a consensus on price and produce to that rather than having a price competition.