LEGALWATCH: Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse Verdict

[rle68]

^well said thanks you said it for me

and those scibor minis are freaking cool.. thats why id use them over some of the garbage gw puts out.. im sorry their finecast line is crap

[LostInTheDark]

"I don't know about you bub... but if it were me.... I dont' know if I would have put my family at risk like that." It only sounds funny and ominous following the context that he means to appeal. All that humor aside, I'm curious about your curiosity. It doesn't sound genuine. It sounds like passive-aggressive garbage complete with leading questions and a very clear moral you wish to espouse.

Or I could just be genuinely interested. As I said in a previous post I'm a customer of CHS and the same as you I will buy from anyone offering a product I want. I’m not trying to push a moral judgement on what choices he made, that’s why there are courts. I'm just curious why he decided to take a stand given the risks rather than follow the pattern of other similar manufacturers. In his reply to my other comment he did suggest that I walk in his shoes, that was all I was trying to do.

From other CHS posts I got the impression that CHS had been forced to delay doing what they wanted to do by the court case, but lacking your business insight I must obviously be wrong.

I'm sorry if you don't like the way I structure my comments, you could always ignore them if you find them offensive or creepy.

[Caitsidhe]

Or I could just be genuinely interested. As I said in a previous post I'm a customer of CHS and the same as you I will buy from anyone offering a product I want. I’m not trying to push a moral judgement on what choices he made, that’s why there are courts. I'm just curious why he decided to take a stand given the risks rather than follow the pattern of other similar manufacturers. In his reply to my other comment he did suggest that I walk in his shoes, that was all I was trying to do.

From other CHS posts I got the impression that CHS had been forced to delay doing what they wanted to do by the court case, but lacking your business insight I must obviously be wrong.

I'm sorry if you don't like the way I structure my comments, you could always ignore them if you find them offensive or creepy.

You don't have to restructure anything for me. I was just pointing out how it sounds in the text void... i.e. kind of creepy. The curiosity didn't come across genuine because the questions were so leading. You could have just asked, "Can you give us your perspectives and why you did things?" You came across more as if you were moralizing than asking questions. And if you do buy from Chapterhouse (the same as me) how on Earth can you ask those questions. From a moral and ethical standpoint, if you believe they are doing something wrong, you are aiding and abetting it.

[LostInTheDark]

You don't have to restructure anything for me. I was just pointing out how it sounds in the text void... i.e. kind of creepy. The curiosity didn't come across genuine because the questions were so leading. You could have just asked, "Can you give us your perspectives and why you did things?" You came across more as if you were moralizing than asking questions. And if you do buy from Chapterhouse (the same as me) how on Earth can you ask those questions. From a moral and ethical standpoint, if you believe they are doing something wrong, you are aiding and abetting it.

I didn't make the original comment for you though. It was in reply to Nick's reply to my comment that he had the courtesy to make.

Am I a hypocrite for disagreeing with the way CHS did some things, but still buying stuff? Perhaps, but I don't agree with a lot of things that GW do either and still buy their stuff.

I think you're reading a bit much into my comments, they weren't intended to be some moral drama. I've always thought the whole episode was unneccessary and put my thoughts down to that effect. I normally wouldn't bother but it's not often you get a change to get some dialogue from the person who made the choices.

Does adding a smiley face or two make a post less judgemental/aggressive? Perhaps that was what was missing from my post

[Caitsidhe]

Does adding a smiley face or two make a post less judgemental/aggressive? Perhaps that was what was missing from my post

It never hurts.

[chapterhousestudios]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

For almost everyone the job they do is to provide for their family, no different to you. We are defined by the choices we make.

So you have legal advice saying that what you are doing is within the law and you have your business up and running, gaining some traction. You advertise your new releases on forums such as this.

The purpose of your business is to sell stuff. You start to receive a fair amount of negative commentary from strangers as you put it, some of who know nothing, some who provide an informed opinion.

This is the bit I don't understand. To step into your shoes, these people are your perspective customers, many of whom stated that they would not purchase from your business due the way you were presenting your products. If it was me I would have stepped back and looked at the root cause of the negativity and adjusted my business practice to try and not alginate my prospective customers.

Even if what you were doing was legal, and the results of the case dispute this, it doesn't necessarily make it the correct thing to do for a business to "stick to its guns" when this interferes with its base goal of maximising sales/revenue.

Especially when all but guaranteeing legal intervention from the company whose product your products are designed to complement. It seemed at the time and still does a strange risk to take when it’s your livelihood at stake unless it was a crusade to validate a strongly held view.

I am genuinely interested in why you didn't take the easier path that would have saved you the couple of years of stress and lost opportunities with your business. It’s not a risk I would have taken with my family.

Looking back now, would you have made the same choices?

Running a business is much like life in general, you can not possibly make everyone happy, and to try to do so will never end well.

I wont go into details pertaining to numbers but Chapterhouse is doing well even with the people who do not agree with how the business is ran. Another point to consider, the people who have been very negatively outspoken against how our products are marketed, would they ever have made purchases, is that truly a customer lost or not? It can drive a person crazy trying to figure it all out.

What I have learned is there are people on the internet, much like real life, who will never give you an inch.

To your question on would I have done things differently? Yes, some things I would have done differently. I also believe that GW has a false sense of how IP law works, and I would have always tried to market and describe our items legally, saying how something is compatible with etc. I know for fact that GW does not understand that this is completely legal and insist on artificially controlling how 3rd party companies describe our products. I have heard from the top people at GW and their marketing philosophy is flawed legally and they do want a "bully" level of control on the market. They would never have been happy with my business in the market place.

The largest consequence of the GW episode (besides a very personal one I wont extrapolate on) is that we have had to put energy into the case that otherwise could have been put into new products. It would be safe to say for 2.5 years we have been on the side-lines as far as products go, and many many competitors have jumped on board since then. I have some catching up to do, and I am sure that stalling CHS was surely a plan of GWs from the start.

[Deadlift]

I will be honest whilst not a huge fan of all the CHS products personally, I am finding it refreshing that your willing to have open dialogue with us on the forums. I'm guessing you have to be pretty thick skinned but it's definitely worth while. Personally I had a rather ignorant, pre-conceived idea about CHS which has been changed for the better. Kudos to you for that.

[Mike Dunford]

Mr. Dunford What is Rule 59? I'm only familiar with rule 34. 35 and 63...

Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 59 governs motions for new trials, and motions to alter or amend a judgment. These motions are rarely granted, but they get filed often enough that the judge listed them as topics to be discussed at the first post-trial status conference. The deadline for these motions is 15 July, so we'll know if any are being filed by then.

[Chris Copeland]

I will be honest whilst not a huge fan of all the CHS products personally, I am finding it refreshing that your willing to have open dialogue with us on the forums. I'm guessing you have to be pretty thick skinned but it's definitely worth while. Personally I had a rather ignorant, pre-conceived idea about CHS which has been changed for the better. Kudos to you for that.

Deadlift, my brother, I must say: you always come off as the most reasonable person on the Interwebz! I hope you come to Texas some time and roll some dice with me! Cope

[Apollinarius]

How can you legally use someones trademarks? This is gonna be interesting.
Share price predictions any one?

Basically, Chapterhouse can put on their website "Compatible with Games Workshop(tm) products" or "Add to your Warhammer 40,000(tm) Space Marine collection."

Honestly, I think it's a beneficial ruling for both companies. It's not like Chapterhouse will be seeling their own versions of GW miniatures. The things that Chapterhouse is selling make buying more miniatures from GW appealing because you don't have to shell out $20 for 10 DA shoulderpads.