Space Marines Rumor Roundup

[WYSIWYG]

Wow grav guns sound like garbage,they do nothing that plasma guns don't do better. I bet no one ever takes grav guns, shame cause they look cool. Space Marines didn't need a MEQ killer gun, they needed a gun to deal with these hoards of 5+ and 4+ el cheapo guard equivalents, like Tau and Eldar.

Heres what space marines need:

Rotary Cannon: S3 AP4 Salvo 3/6 Range 36"

Thats the gun Space Marines needed not a crappy (and more than likely more expensive) plasma gun.

[Rajden]

Heres what space marines need:

Rotary Cannon: S3 AP4 Salvo 3/6 Range 36"

Thats the gun Space Marines needed not a crappy (and more than likely more expensive) plasma gun.

You mean something along the lines of a Heavy Bolter? :P

[WYSIWYG]

You mean something along the lines of a Heavy Bolter? :P

The Heavy Bolter is crap, its too expensive, has too few shots to be anti hoarde and can only makes snap shots if it moves. So no, not the Heavy Failure, a real anti GEQ weapon.

[The Emperor's Champion]

You're joking, right?
We already have Bolters and Heavy Bolters...

We mow down GEQ like the bad joke that they are.
Tau we just beat senseless in melee.

A Monstrous Creature-killer is EXACTLY what we needed.

Heeeere Riptide Riptide Riptide.....
Imma getcha!


Seriously, if you don't see how much murder these Grav weapons are, I don't know how to help you.

[Angelofblades]

You're joking, right?
We already have Bolters and Heavy Bolters...

We mow down GEQ like the bad joke that they are.
Tau we just beat senseless in melee.

A Monstrous Creature-killer is EXACTLY what we needed.

Heeeere Riptide Riptide Riptide.....
Imma getcha!


Seriously, if you don't see how much murder these Grav weapons are, I don't know how to help you.

Pretty much this.

You have to consider that it's completely ignoring almost 2 important parts of the shooting phase. T values and armor saves. Almost all MC's rely on their high T and decent armor save to survive small arms fire. This weapon is ignoring both, and causing wounds on good rolls against MC's!

Let's take that Riptide example. It wounds on 2's and ignores it's sv and has multiple shots!. A Plasma gun only gets a single shot - and it can kill it's user! The upside to the plasma gun is that it does have better range, it can cause instant death to T3 and does a better job of affecting light - medium armor.

[daboarder]

So what your saying iz. Space marines needed a 20pt crutch to deal with 200+ points MCs and terminator units...

Oh, and your crutch still burns through regular horde infantry with ease...because its not like this is meant to be a two player game or anything.....

[Angelofblades]

So what your saying iz. Space marines needed a 20pt crutch to deal with 200+ points MCs and terminator units...

Oh, and your crutch still burns through regular horde infantry with ease...because its not like this is meant to be a two player game or anything.....

I don't see it as a crutch, heck it's a salvo weapon and the most use you're going to get out of it is on them Centurions, since they're SnP. So on the move, tactical squads will be short ranged on them. It doesnt show that it ignore cover saves, also if it wounds on armor value, that means the actual "horde," units fare pretty well, what with their 5+ and 6+ saves, meaning that the grav guns only wound on 5's and 6's against them. The question becomes, what does it do against models with no armor save? IE Wraiths or a seer council (not that anyone takes one that is...)

Nob Bikers have crap armor saves, 5+, unless you upgrade them to have eavy armor.

Kroot don't have an armor save and you can spam them like candy, as some tau player do. So while I do agree that it does burn through good saves with ease, i don't see it burning through horde units as you claim that it may.

Now was it a necessary weapon to introduce? Probably just as necessary as those Centurion models.

[Tomgar]

The grav gun is way too specialised to make sense in an army that's meant to flexible. It slows up your tactical squads (unless you're somehow happy to fire at a pathetic 9" range) which should really be moving and it can only be useful against specialised targets like MCs and Terminators. And to be quite honest, in addition to keeping you mobile and allowing you to take out GEQs and light armour too, plasma guns fulfill those roles pretty well already.

Case in point, I very easily took out a Greater Daemon of Khorne the other day in one turn with plasma fire. Gets Hot very rarely actually kills your marines (praise the Emprah for power armour). In addition, you get to insta-kill low toughness targets and wound pretty much anything on a two anyway, making the way the grav gun rolls for toughness pretty pointless in comparison. Not at all convinced by them and I'll be sticking to what has always worked in the past.

[WYSIWYG]

You're joking, right?
We already have Bolters and Heavy Bolters...

We mow down GEQ like the bad joke that they are.
Tau we just beat senseless in melee.

A Monstrous Creature-killer is EXACTLY what we needed.

Heeeere Riptide Riptide Riptide.....
Imma getcha!


Seriously, if you don't see how much murder these Grav weapons are, I don't know how to help you.

Wow, your really have no clue what your talking about as the plasma gun is superior in every way to grav guns.

lets compare the two versus a Trygon:

A grav gun versus a Trygon. The Trygon has a 3+ armor save, so the Grav gun wounds on a 3+ and ignores the Trygon's armor, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a Trygon. The Trygon has a toughness of 6 and the plasma gun is strength 7, so the plasma gun wounds on a 3+ and ignores the Trygon's armor, however the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.


Winner versus the Trygon: The Plasma Gun wins as it preforms identically, wounding on 3+ and ignores it's armor but has a superior range.

Lets compare the two versus a squad of Guardsmen:

A grav gun versus a squad of Guardsmen. The Guardsman have a 5+ armor save so the Grav gun wounds on a 5+ and ignores the Gaurdsman's armor, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a squad of Guardsmen. The squad of Guardsman have a toughness of 3 and the plasma gun is strength 7, so the plasma gun wounds on a 2+ and penetrates the Guardsman's armor, however the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.

Winner versus the Guardsman: The Plasma Gun is superior in every way versus lighter infantry wounding them on 2+ versus the grav guns 5+ and has better range while mobile, so it clearly wins.

Lets compare the two versus a Rhino:

A grav gun versus a Rhino. Glances on a 6, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a Rhino. It glances on a 4 and penetrates on a 5+ and the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.

Winner versus the Rhino: Again the Plasma gun is the clear winner.

Lets compare the two versus Marines:

A grav gun versus a Marine. The Marine has a 3+ armor save so the Grav gun wounds on a 3+ and ignores the Marine's armor, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a Marine. The Marine has a toughness of 4 and the plasma gun is strength 7, so the plasma gun wounds on a 2+ and ignores the Marine's armor, however the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.

Winner versus the Marine: Again the Plasma gun wins.


So yeah, how is the Grav Gun better? Also, good luck making it to within 9 inches of the Riptide to use those grav rifles.

[Gir]

Wow, your really have no clue what your talking about as the plasma gun is superior in every way to grav guns.

lets compare the two versus a Trygon:

A grav gun versus a Trygon. The Trygon has a 3+ armor save, so the Grav gun wounds on a 3+ and ignores the Trygon's armor, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a Trygon. The Trygon has a toughness of 6 and the plasma gun is strength 7, so the plasma gun wounds on a 3+ and ignores the Trygon's armor, however the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.


Winner versus the Trygon: The Plasma Gun wins as it preforms identically, wounding on 3+ and ignores it's armor but has a superior range.

Lets compare the two versus a squad of Guardsmen:

A grav gun versus a squad of Guardsmen. The Guardsman have a 5+ armor save so the Grav gun wounds on a 5+ and ignores the Gaurdsman's armor, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a squad of Guardsmen. The squad of Guardsman have a toughness of 3 and the plasma gun is strength 7, so the plasma gun wounds on a 2+ and penetrates the Guardsman's armor, however the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.

Winner versus the Guardsman: The Plasma Gun is superior in every way versus lighter infantry wounding them on 2+ versus the grav guns 5+ and has better range while mobile, so it clearly wins.

Lets compare the two versus a Rhino:

A grav gun versus a Rhino. Glances on a 6, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a Rhino. It glances on a 4 and penetrates on a 5+ and the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.

Winner versus the Rhino: Again the Plasma gun is the clear winner.

Lets compare the two versus Marines:

A grav gun versus a Marine. The Marine has a 3+ armor save so the Grav gun wounds on a 3+ and ignores the Marine's armor, but the grav gun only has a 9 inch range if the wielder moves.

A plasma gun versus a Marine. The Marine has a toughness of 4 and the plasma gun is strength 7, so the plasma gun wounds on a 2+ and ignores the Marine's armor, however the plasma gun has a 12 inch range if the wielder moves.

Winner versus the Marine: Again the Plasma gun wins.


So yeah, how is the Grav Gun better? Also, good luck making it to within 9 inches of the Riptide to use those grav rifles.

That's all great if you ignore that every shot with a plasma gun may be it's last.