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  1. #1

    Default How to play Cluster Mines, RAW or RAI?

    The other day at my local GW I was playing a game of 40k using my newly undercoated Scout Bike Squad, who for the cost of a Power Weapon and Melta Bombs come with Cluster Mines.

    Now their rules state that after MY army deploys, Scouts redeploy and Infiltrators deploy but before Seize the Initiative occurs, each unit armed with Cluster Mines gets to booby-trap one piece of terrain. I was going first so after I had deployed my forces I looked at the terrain and chose the forest on their side of the table. The reason for picking this forest is that there wasn't much point trapping the two pieces of terrain in my deployment zone and the next closest piece I had planned to use, so in case I hadn't read the rules properly I didn't want to cause my guys to get Dangerous Terrain tests. There was one other piece of terrain in their deployment zone but it was so far back I reckoned that if they deployed in there, then they were most likely to remain stationary.

    Anyway, so my opponents deployed (I had 1310pts and they both had 655pts each) and once my Scout Bike Squad had Infiltrated and then Scouted 12", I announced that my Scouts had mined the Forest, to which the GW Manager interrupts me and says that I can't do that. I then proceed to tell him that I can because I'm following exactly what it says in the codex i.e RAW and explain why I chose the Forest. While he didn't say it exactly he essentially tells me that I should be copying what it says in the Tyranid codex for Yrmgal Genestealers i.e RAI (write down on a piece of paper where they go, so as to not be accused of cheating). After the conversation goes back and forth I have a go at him stating the fact that I do not cheat and I'm only following what the codex says (this I found to be rather rude/annoying as the guy has known me for 4/5 years and to find that he thinks that I cheat in games was/is rather disheartening. Does he think so little of me?), his response is that if he ever plays me that he'll play exactly the same way as me (no idea what that means) and if I dislike what he thinks then there's the door.

    The game carries on and the Forest only causes two Dangerous Terrain tests throughout (both passed) and I eventually win the game.

    So, how should Cluster Mines be played?

    RAW = Follow what the rules state as they clearly don't say you must write it down.
    RAI = Copy what it says in the Tyranid book regarding Yrmgal Genestealers, just in case someone decides to call you a cheat.
    I have a blog, check it out :P - http://forthegloryofgorkandmork.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/tau-xv8-02-commander.html - just updated my blog 11/04/13

  2. #2

    Default

    "Should" isn't really a rules question, in my opinion. But if you're looking for confirmation that the manager was being a jerk, yes, from your description he took unnecessary offense. The codex plainly doesn't require you to write anything down. Would it be prudent to do so in the future when playing with this fellow? Apparently. Would I be offended if you informed me which terrain piece you had mined with only your word for it? Not unless you seemed like a shifty guy to begin with.

  3. #3

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    My plan now is to make a note in my iPad where I'm going to mine before I deploy (if going first, or before they start deploying if going second) so that if they challenge me I can show them.

    What annoyed me about that day was the game after mine which had a beginner in it and someone who's been coming to the store on and off for about 2 years, is that the 'older' guy was 'cheating' from the get go. Had to stop him a few times and because I said that it's a 'beginners' game because of the new guy he kept making references to it to explain his cheating, urgh that guy was annoying. Oh and guess what the Manager said about it, nothing.

    A friend of mine said that perhaps the reason why the Manager was being a jerk was due to the fact that he knew I was right but because it was me chose to make a fuss.
    I have a blog, check it out :P - http://forthegloryofgorkandmork.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/tau-xv8-02-commander.html - just updated my blog 11/04/13

  4. #4

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    There's zero difference between RAI and RAW here, and the GW manager was flat out wrong. The rules for Cluster Mines in C:SM on pg 124 are very explicit on when and how they work. You don't have to decide anything ahead of time, the decision of where to place them and the placement happens at the same time; After Scouts and Infiltrators.

    Would I be offended if you informed me which terrain piece you had mined with only your word for it
    Why does he need to give his word in the first place? There's nothing secret about the placement and you don't get to do anything after he does it anyway. The player controlling the scout bikes picks after Scout and Infiltrate moves have been made and you mark the terrain.

  5. #5
    Brother-Captain
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    Default

    What Boyle said. Indeed, you are suppose to place a marker (suggested in the rule itself) onto the terrain that is being booby-trapped. It's not like you can simply place a marker on the table and then ignore your opponent when they ask you what it is. That's just not how the game is played. That GW-manager just got angry because you were right, he was wrong, and he woke upon the wrong side of the bed.
    http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?52423-The-Blood-Pact-Chaos-Homebrew-Supplement&p=472214&viewfull=1#post472214

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