Copy Of Tyranid Codex In Hand

[Tynskel]

I read the dakka thread, and there were a lot of idiots on it. And, no offense to Tynskel, a lot of them were innane "hah, all you whiners are just butthurt waac players anyways, I'm gonna have fun with my [insert terrible unit that they inexplicably think is the newest mostest powerfullest evar]".

I think a lot of the nerfs they made make sense. Did you *evar* use anything other than Biomancy in a Tournament? I hated the biomancy chart–I still do. Look at what Mephiston does every game...

Carnifexes were not terrible, they just lost their awesome to make room for Trygons.
However, gaining fleet makes Carnifexes terrifying again. That's fine by me.

Shrikes were always a unit that was just fun. Giving them fleet shifts them from being okay to in the really good category. Talk to any Shrike player for space marines: fleet + jump pack = awesome.

[Tynskel]

sigh, of course

Tyrant never received the bonesword +lash for free. Read your codex. Stop being a Debbie Downer.
[url]http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?21435-Tynskel-s-Guide-to-Interpreting-Rules&p=194151&viewfull=1#post194151[/url]

[DarkLink]

Iron arm is stupid, and the fact that the codex needed it to prop them up was an obvious flaw. Thing is, they didn't get anything to replace it.

Also, my doubles partner and I regularly used Telepathy, which has some great powers as well.

As for Carnifexes... you might have been able to get away with them in very casual games. But they were previously massively overpriced for what you actually got. Now, they're decent, but there's so much ranged firepower out there that they're still going to get shot to pieces, especially with no pods to drop on flanks and the like. Like I said, every one of my armies would absolutely wipe the floor with a Carnifex spam list. The Space Marine allies list I'm slowly accumulating on the side would, too, with the rough 1750 list I have planned out. The Sisters I have would struggle a bit with the monstrous creatures, but Sisters aren't exactly top tier by a very long shot.

[Tynskel]

yup, and thats a great buff, its been a "design flaw" with venom cannons for years, now we dont need to worry about its they are psuedo lascannons that trade AP for blast

that's too bad. The venom Cannon, since 2nd Edition, was not that great at heavy vehicle busting.

[Tynskel]

Iron arm is stupid, and the fact that the codex needed it to prop them up was an obvious flaw. Thing is, they didn't get anything to replace it.

Also, my doubles partner and I regularly used Telepathy, which has some great powers as well.

As for Carnifexes... you might have been able to get away with them in very casual games. But they were previously massively overpriced for what you actually got. Now, they're decent, but there's so much ranged firepower out there that they're still going to get shot to pieces, especially with no pods to drop on flanks and the like. Like I said, every one of my armies would absolutely wipe the floor with a Carnifex spam list. The Space Marine allies list I'm slowly accumulating on the side would, too, with the rough 1750 list I have planned out. The Sisters I have would struggle a bit with the monstrous creatures, but Sisters aren't exactly top tier by a very long shot.

oh. You used the 'spam' word. Yeah, spammers are not exactly the brains of this hobby.

[Tynskel]

now, I don't have my main rulebook in front of me.

does the lashwhip 'swiftstrike', which states +3 I in the Fight Sub Phase, override the I1 for charging through cover? Because being a permnament I4 is not bad.

[Sly]

"Give me MCs that actually act like they're supposed to, not something that can reliably be shot to death by small arms fire while other armies light transports can effectively ignore 90% of mine. "

Uh, seriously? With S6 on a lot of platforms, HVCs being decent, S7 on Exocrines, and S8 on the Crone's Vector Strikes and on Impaler Cannons (both of which get Ignore Cover), how are Nids going to have a problem breaking light transports? If he means that Rhinos ignore infantry rifle weapons like Devourers, well, they ignore Bolters also. The quotes from Marrak are pretty full of exaggeration.

Nids look to have some problems, but it's more in the execution of the concept and internal balance rather than worrying about being crippled by the lack of Biomancy.

[mathhammer]

now, I don't have my main rulebook in front of me.

does the lashwhip 'swiftstrike', which states +3 I in the Fight Sub Phase, override the I1 for charging through cover? Because being a permnament I4 is not bad.

No, it is added to I then modified by cover.

[DarkLink]

oh. You used the 'spam' word. Yeah, spammers are not exactly the brains of this hobby.

...aaand I lost you. Sorry. Forgot that if you use certain keywords, like spam, some people will use that as an excuse to completely ignore anything and everything you say.

"Give me MCs that actually act like they're supposed to, not something that can reliably be shot to death by small arms fire while other armies light transports can effectively ignore 90% of mine. "

Uh, seriously? With S6 on a lot of platforms, HVCs being decent, S7 on Exocrines, and S8 on the Crone's Vector Strikes and on Impaler Cannons (both of which get Ignore Cover), how are Nids going to have a problem breaking light transports? If he means that Rhinos ignore infantry rifle weapons like Devourers, well, they ignore Bolters also. The quotes from Marrak are pretty full of exaggeration.

Nids look to have some problems, but it's more in the execution of the concept and internal balance rather than worrying about being crippled by the lack of Biomancy.

Light transports pretty much means wave serpents now. Which nids are terrible against. No, Hive Guard are not a magical solution. Too short ranged and too low of BS now. They can kill wave serpents, sure, but just because you have a unit doesn't mean you're going to suddenly have an easy game. For one, they're pretty short ranged. Just shoot them before they get close, and they're no longer a threat. Nids will have trouble with competitive Tau and Eldar.












To use more simple terms, most nids come in three flavors, little, medium, and big. Little guys are t3 with no real save. They drop like flies, and as a result tend to run into the horde problem I mentioned earlier. There are the medium ones, t4 with decent saves and multiple wounds, who tend to be pretty expensive and die quickly regardless. And then there are the big ones, which are basically all T6 3+. That is not as impressive as it used to be. It doesnt matter if it's six fexes, or two and some hive tyrants, or exocrines, or trygons, or any combination thereof. You can still only afford so many of them, and most competitive lists can drop them, at range, too quickly to be a very balanced game.

When everything in your army is so relatively easy to drop, it doesn't matter what combination you take them in. You get shot up either way. Nids may have gotten cheaper, which is a buff, but they have not gotten cheap enoug for their relative lack of durability, not enough to be truly competitive. It has nothing to do with spam, it has nothing to do with them being the new op cheese or not, it's only about whether or not you can take them to any given game and have an expectation to not simply get tabled.

If you have a gaming group so casual that you can take genuinely crappy units and your opponents won't actually try to win and just let youget away with playing whatever you want, then great. Good for you. I'd like to see more assault Marines and the like on the table. But that doesn't make those units good. Performing well because your opponent is taking it easy on you, inentionally or not (and there's nothing wrong with doing that, btw), is very different from having an objectively good unit that performs well of its own virtue.

Edit: plus, a lot of nids hit like a wet noodle compared to most good units nowadays. If nids were still brutal in combat, this might be a different story, but now they're just not that impressive.

[Martyn Powell]

and this isn't the total revamp we all wanted.

HAHA Award for most accurate description of this codex!

Seriously if I'm paying £30 for something I want it to be different than the previous codex, not just copy and paste the same stories or text boxes into a slightly different layout and hope no-one notices.