kamikazelocks

[Dave Mcturk]

i know that 6th ed is now almost a year in and in general the new eldar codex [apart from the obvious glitches] is more than good.

but what is really bugging me is the death wish warlocks.

i mean a 1 in 18 chance of dying everytime they use a battle spell really isnt in line with eldar longevity.

what about if they fail they lose their powers for the rest of the game ?

or giving them two wounds ? - then a battle spell fail will give them time to recover before they try again ?

or bring back the 3+ / 4+ invulnerable save v the powers of the warp ?

i am just running them as ST9 hunter killers - not even bothering to roll up powers !

[the venom trick notwithstanding - what about a buff with a farseer or spirit seer attached] ?

[GoffWarboss]

If there is one thing Warlocks need, its more survivability, its not as if they're currently considered the most overpowered unit in the game purely because of how well they can survive

[Tynskel]

try using coherent statements.
I am not sure what you are trying to do other than complain.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I think what he is trying to say is the unit is already one of the most durable in the game with a 2+ rerollable save when in a seer council. That's what i took it to mean. And I am one to agree the Seer council doesn't need to be boosted they are already hard to deal with.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think it's important to remember that one of the implications of the fluff is that using psychic powers in combat is really different from the typical psychic sorcery that Eldar engage in. Calling on the Warp in combat situations, under stress, is very different from casting runes in the safety of your sanctum in the heart of your Craftworld.

So, yes, even though Eldar are masters of the psychic arts... if you have the balls to toss psychic powers around in the middle of combat, there's a chance that your brain is going to be eaten by a daemon, whoever you are.

[Archon Charybdis]

So, yes, even though Eldar are masters of the psychic arts... if you have the balls to toss psychic powers around in the middle of combat, there's a chance that your brain is going to be eaten by a daemon, whoever you are.

You could also rationalize it by the fact that Eldar souls burn so brightly in the warp, and are so tasty to Slaanesh, that even with their heightened defenses they're still susceptible to daemon-nomming.

[Sly]

I have to agree with one thing: would there really be such a thing as a Seer Council going into battle casting spells, or as Aspiring Sorcerer for Thousand Sons, if they are expected to cast several spells in a battle, and those spells have a noticeable chance to kill the caster? It's not the concept that "this should be dangerous", as much as "would there really be such a profession as a combat spell caster"?

I also think that Perils of the Warp should cause the caster to lose a Sorcery Level instead of a wound. Leaving aside the Seer Council issue, because:
a) it's not as overpowered as people think it is, and
b) even if it is too powerful for its points, it's a design mistake that really doesn't relate to the question of whether there should be 1-wound combat casters in the game or not.

[ElectricPaladin]

I have to agree with one thing: would there really be such a thing as a Seer Council going into battle casting spells, or as Aspiring Sorcerer for Thousand Sons, if they are expected to cast several spells in a battle, and those spells have a noticeable chance to kill the caster? It's not the concept that "this should be dangerous", as much as "would there really be such a profession as a combat spell caster"?

I also think that Perils of the Warp should cause the caster to lose a Sorcery Level instead of a wound. Leaving aside the Seer Council issue, because:
a) it's not as overpowered as people think it is, and
b) even if it is too powerful for its points, it's a design mistake that really doesn't relate to the question of whether there should be 1-wound combat casters in the game or not.

I mean, look... meddling in the Warp has a 1 in 36 chance of causing your head to explode - only partly explode, if you're a multi-wound model. Using a plasma gun has a 1 in 6 chance of getting you killed, and nobody complains about those.

And for that matter, let's not forget that "takes a wound" is not the same thing as "dude is dead." That Perils of the Warp wound could mean that a daemon eats your brain, but it could also mean that you pass out, or temporarily lose your powers and run off to find somewhere to hide, or your psychic hood/ghosthelm/whatever suffers a critical failure and you decide to follow the rules and not use psychic powers until you can get a new one. If your complaint is narrative, you need to make in the context of the entire narrative of the game, not cherry-pick a combination of rules and narrative that annoys you.

[Anggul]

Imperial Guard Psykers are Ld9. A Warlock is better than an Imperial Guard Psyker, so should be Ld9 at the very least. They also used to be Aspect Warriors, and Aspect Warriors are Ld9.

They should definitely be at least Ld9. Some kind of Ghosthelm would also be fitting, there's no reason Farseers would get the protection and the Warlocks wouldn't, and it would remove the issue of them dropping dead so often.

The issue with Jetseer Councils isn't the base Warlock rules, it's Protect and Fortune that make them nigh invincible. Change the Warlock stats to fit the fluff and make it so that they can be used well as leaders for Guardians, not just part of the silly deathstar, then change the powers so that deathstar can't be made.

[Dave Mcturk]

I mean, look... meddling in the Warp has a 1 in 36 chance of causing your head to explode - only partly explode, if you're a multi-wound model. Using a plasma gun has a 1 in 6 chance of getting you killed, and nobody complains about those.

And for that matter, let's not forget that "takes a wound" is not the same thing as "dude is dead." That Perils of the Warp wound could mean that a daemon eats your brain, but it could also mean that you pass out, or temporarily lose your powers and run off to find somewhere to hide, or your psychic hood/ghosthelm/whatever suffers a critical failure and you decide to follow the rules and not use psychic powers until you can get a new one. If your complaint is narrative, you need to make in the context of the entire narrative of the game, not cherry-pick a combination of rules and narrative that annoys you.

its a 1 in 18 chance; which is 3/10 warlocks per game. almost every other psyker in the game is better at 'magic' - including orcz

the over all effect of a fully tooled up seer council may make it a bit over-powered, but its the farseers and other 'additions' such as the baron or venom support that make it so.

warlocks as a stand alone unit are excellent, even at their points cost and weaknesses; and general irrelevance of their own powers: but in pure logic terms a spell caster that is almost certainly doomed to 'fry' his/her own brain 33% of games is not well thought out. Bringing back the 4+ iv save would at least make it credible; a leadership of 9 or 10 would improve their in game 'reliability' but actually doesnt change their survivability; as i expressed badly in a previous post - it seems to me that 'losing' their psychic powers for the remainder of the game rather than going into a warp induced coma would be a much 'better' mechanism.