First 7th Ed Game Impressions

[Eldar_Atog]

This is an important fact. It means that you always have near-equivalent dice (barring differences in the number of MLs to a side). That significantly reduces the chaos of the situation, and means that you need to pay if you want to have a game-dominating number of dice.

Yeah, that is an important difference. Gonna have to give that another try.

[DarkLink]

Unless you play one of the psychically dominant armies, where you basically get a bunch of psychic dice practically for free. The d6 per player becomes pretty negligible at that point. I mean, I haven't tried spamming dice yet, my army just comes with ~15 naturally.

[Melon-neko]

Unless you play one of the psychically dominant armies, where you basically get a bunch of psychic dice practically for free. The d6 per player becomes pretty negligible at that point. I mean, I haven't tried spamming dice yet, my army just comes with ~15 naturally.

I'm hoping grey knights will get a new codex and maybe at least their rhinos wont be psykers =(

[daboarder]

I'm hoping grey knights will get a new codex and maybe at least their rhinos wont be psykers =(

there is an entire special rule in the BRB for that, I dont think they are likely to lose it

[DarkLink]

And it's not like it will matter that much, it's just a few extra dice for me. I still generate a ton of dice even without them.

[John Bower]

Well, to start, that is actually impossible. You roll a single D6 at the start of the psychic phase, and that's the base for both of you, you each add your mastery levels to that number. So every round you would have had 3+1d6 while your psykerless opponent would have had the same 1d6 result, which is to say you would always have more dice available by simply having a psyker while they didn't..

Second, to successfully Deny the Witch, you have to roll a 6 for every 4+ rolled to activate the power. So if you ever rolled, say, two 4+'s to activate a power, regardless of how many WC the power takes, your opponent needed to roll two 6's to deny it. That alone should have cut down his deny success unless your opponent was rolling absurdly hot.

Third, with perils only occurring on two or more 6's, you seriously rolled two or more every time you rolled three dice? I find that hard to believe unless you're less lucky than I am.

So generally, it sounds like you both needed to read the rules a little more closely. And refer to the numbers in [URL="http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?45643-Psychic-phase-numbers"]this thread[/URL] about casting powers. Rolling 2d6 for a 1 WC power is roughly equivalent to the success rate of a Leadership 8 pskyer in 6th edition. You have to throw at least 4 dice to match/beat 6th ed LD10 success rates, though 3 dice is pretty close.

I have to say that a similar run of lousy luck happened in my 1st game of 7th. Did more DMG with perils than my mates crowns did. However we played 2 games and didn't peril once in the second game.

[Erik Setzer]

On the topic of insane luck with psychic powers and playing with the new rules...

I brought out my Orks yesterday for a quick spin before the new codex arrives. Played two games, used a couple of ML2 Weirdboyz for giggles even though Orks can only use Daemonology. First game was against another Ork army, loads of fun, I'll touch on that one. The second was against Space Wolves and reminded me why I don't like the current Ork codex or Space Wolf codex (I think pretty much my entire army was destroyed by the end of turn 2, and about half of that was in close combat).

Actually, no, let me touch on the second one. It shows some of the abuses you can do. And I like the player, but I think the mentality of our local "beat everyone's face in with gimmicked lists" has tainted his list building. 1500 points, he brought a list like this:

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf, Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, a bunch of Fenrisian Wolves
2x Grey Hunter Pack (10) with two flamers
2x Ministorum Priest
1x Primaris Psyker
1x Runepriest
2x Long Fangs Pack (6) with five missile launchers
Manticore
AM Command Squad
AM Veteran Squad with missile launcher
Valkyrie
Aegis Line with quad gun

One Priest and one psyker each (both with Biomancy) joined the two Grey Hunter Packs, one of which the Wolf Lord joined. He got Endurance with both. So it's now two Grey Hunter packs running around with Feel No Pain (4+), Relentless, Eternal Warrior, and rerolling failed saves. Sure, you have to get kind of lucky to get all that stuff off, I suppose, but he managed it. So my Warboss and Mega-Nobz hit one pack, his Wolf Lord shredded my Warboss and two Mega-Nobz, the Mega-Nobz did jack squat because the Grey Hunters got their FNP (4+) thanks to having Eternal Warrior, and that unit died. Two massive Ork mobs disintegated in combat against the other Grey Hunter pack (one of them even got to charge the Grey Hunters... but that didn't much help). And then there were krak missiles flying everywhere (hello, Open-Topped Battlewagon!), and S10 AP1 multiple template Ordnance barrages dropping all over, and the Master of the Ordnance... But yeah, those two damn squads, watching my army just crumbling in waves to them thanks to that combination of stuff (brought to you by Battle Brothers!)... it was hard to plow through that game. It was disheartening.

So anyway, the first game...

In the first game, it was pretty much evenly matched armies, with Relic as the mission. But I had one of my Weirdboyz who turned the tide on his own, pretty much. He ended up summoning three packs of Horrors by the time it was done, as well as a pack of Bloodletters; one of the Horrors units summoned a pair of Heralds; the other ended up sacrificing its last four members to summon in a Keeper of Secrets (would have been Lord of Change, but I don't have one of those yet). Didn't get Perils on the first turn; second turn he had Perils but passed; third turn he had Perils, got a 6, passed his Leadership test, and promptly obliterated the Killer Kanz that were holding up the unit he was in (the Nob with Power Klaw was surprisingly useless), and then the next turn he did the same thing again and passed on his base Leadership (there wasn't really a mob left at that point), whereupon he proceeded to lay the smackdown on some Flash Gitz in assault. Tremendously lucky, but it did get a little ridiculous that I was able to just churn out Daemons like crazy with an Ork army. By the time I was done, in a 1500 point game, one Weirdboy was responsible for having added 880 additional points worth of models (because the Daemons he summoned ended up summoning more Daemons).

Yeah, this edition's going to be a bit insane...

[Caitsidhe]

On the topic of insane luck with psychic powers and playing with the new rules...

I brought out my Orks yesterday for a quick spin before the new codex arrives. Played two games, used a couple of ML2 Weirdboyz for giggles even though Orks can only use Daemonology. First game was against another Ork army, loads of fun, I'll touch on that one. The second was against Space Wolves and reminded me why I don't like the current Ork codex or Space Wolf codex (I think pretty much my entire army was destroyed by the end of turn 2, and about half of that was in close combat).

Actually, no, let me touch on the second one. It shows some of the abuses you can do. And I like the player, but I think the mentality of our local "beat everyone's face in with gimmicked lists" has tainted his list building. 1500 points, he brought a list like this:

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf, Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, a bunch of Fenrisian Wolves
2x Grey Hunter Pack (10) with two flamers
2x Ministorum Priest
1x Primaris Psyker
1x Runepriest
2x Long Fangs Pack (6) with five missile launchers
Manticore
AM Command Squad
AM Veteran Squad with missile launcher
Valkyrie
Aegis Line with quad gun

One Priest and one psyker each (both with Biomancy) joined the two Grey Hunter Packs, one of which the Wolf Lord joined. He got Endurance with both. So it's now two Grey Hunter packs running around with Feel No Pain (4+), Relentless, Eternal Warrior, and rerolling failed saves. Sure, you have to get kind of lucky to get all that stuff off, I suppose, but he managed it. So my Warboss and Mega-Nobz hit one pack, his Wolf Lord shredded my Warboss and two Mega-Nobz, the Mega-Nobz did jack squat because the Grey Hunters got their FNP (4+) thanks to having Eternal Warrior, and that unit died. Two massive Ork mobs disintegated in combat against the other Grey Hunter pack (one of them even got to charge the Grey Hunters... but that didn't much help). And then there were krak missiles flying everywhere (hello, Open-Topped Battlewagon!), and S10 AP1 multiple template Ordnance barrages dropping all over, and the Master of the Ordnance... But yeah, those two damn squads, watching my army just crumbling in waves to them thanks to that combination of stuff (brought to you by Battle Brothers!)... it was hard to plow through that game. It was disheartening.

So anyway, the first game...

In the first game, it was pretty much evenly matched armies, with Relic as the mission. But I had one of my Weirdboyz who turned the tide on his own, pretty much. He ended up summoning three packs of Horrors by the time it was done, as well as a pack of Bloodletters; one of the Horrors units summoned a pair of Heralds; the other ended up sacrificing its last four members to summon in a Keeper of Secrets (would have been Lord of Change, but I don't have one of those yet). Didn't get Perils on the first turn; second turn he had Perils but passed; third turn he had Perils, got a 6, passed his Leadership test, and promptly obliterated the Killer Kanz that were holding up the unit he was in (the Nob with Power Klaw was surprisingly useless), and then the next turn he did the same thing again and passed on his base Leadership (there wasn't really a mob left at that point), whereupon he proceeded to lay the smackdown on some Flash Gitz in assault. Tremendously lucky, but it did get a little ridiculous that I was able to just churn out Daemons like crazy with an Ork army. By the time I was done, in a 1500 point game, one Weirdboy was responsible for having added 880 additional points worth of models (because the Daemons he summoned ended up summoning more Daemons).

Yeah, this edition's going to be a bit insane...

I wouldn't have minded fighting this with my "The Cheese Stands Alone: Another Flying Circus" list. But you are correct, the entire lack of standards make this Edition entirely insane.

[DarkLink]

One Priest and one psyker each (both with Biomancy) joined the two Grey Hunter Packs, one of which the Wolf Lord joined. He got Endurance with both. So it's now two Grey Hunter packs running around with Feel No Pain (4+), Relentless, Eternal Warrior, and rerolling failed saves. Sure, you have to get kind of lucky to get all that stuff off, I suppose, but he managed it. So my Warboss and Mega-Nobz hit one pack, his Wolf Lord shredded my Warboss and two Mega-Nobz, the Mega-Nobz did jack squat because the Grey Hunters got their FNP (4+) thanks to having Eternal Warrior, and that unit died.

The only ways for SW to get reroll saves is their wolf banner (which is only once per game and only for rerolling 1's), or precognition, which you can only cast on the psyker himself so the Grey Hunters and the Wolf Lord can't take it. And in 6th, you could not take FNP against ID even if you had Eternal Warrior, so I would check the rules on that. Though, that was clarified in an FAQ, and I don't doubt that GW was too sloppy to read over their own FAQ and make sure said questions weren't an issue in 7th, so it might still work.

[Erik Setzer]

The only ways for SW to get reroll saves is their wolf banner (which is only once per game and only for rerolling 1's), or precognition, which you can only cast on the psyker himself so the Grey Hunters and the Wolf Lord can't take it. And in 6th, you could not take FNP against ID even if you had Eternal Warrior, so I would check the rules on that. Though, that was clarified in an FAQ, and I don't doubt that GW was too sloppy to read over their own FAQ and make sure said questions weren't an issue in 7th, so it might still work.

Ministorum Priest's War Hymns include one to allow him and his *unit* to reroll failed armor and invulnerable saves. (He also gives the unit Zealot, so reroll failed to-hit rolls in the first round of combat). Being an Independent Character and an Imperial (so Battle Brothers with Space Wolves), that means he can join the unit to give them that bonus as well.

On the FNP thing, after looking through all the various sections of the rulebook, I do believe that's right, but it's hard to look all of that up in the middle of a game when you're not feeling well as it is and you're just being reminded of the myriad levels of shenanigans BS that Imperial armies can pull off these days. Seriously, the idea of a Priest going around making Space Marines even nastier is just freaking ridiculous. Ditto for Space Marines letting a Primaris Psyker use psychic powers on them all day long.