Jink: Suggested Rewrite Faq

[Caitsidhe]

The changes to Jink in 7th Edition have been rather profound. There have also, due to a lack of play testing, had several unintended consequences. Right now the only downside to using Jink is that you will be doing Snap Shots on your subsequent Turn. This isn't much of a downside to units that don't shoot or don't care, particularly those used for close combat. I want to state up front that my Winged Nurgle Daemon Princes have been having a field day. They now have a 2+ Cover save at all times, and fear only those things which ignore cover. They never even bother going to the air (not that I did much before) which means they aren't slowed down in assault at all. They no longer have to hop from cover to cover.

What I am suggesting is that the rule for Jink needs to be expanded in the Faq thus:

In addition to only being able to fire Snap Shots, units which use the Jink rule must, on the next assault (and this includes the one they are engaged in currently if they Jink against Overwatch) roll 3D6 and drop the highest die when determining their charge range. They still suffer the -2" for terrain (unless they have another rule that mitigates that). This same rule applies to any troops which disembark from an assault vehicle which used the Jink rule.

[Ben_S]

That would be changing the rule, rather than an FAQ. Is it necessary? (What evidence do you have that it was unintended?)

I don't see (fluff wise) why jinking should penalise a CC-focused FMC. There may be a case from the point of view of rules/game balance. I've not played with FMCs under either 6th or 7th, but I gather that they took a bit of a hit due to changes elsewhere in the rules, so maybe the jink helps even it out. But the increased availability of a jink cover save is indeed a boost for Nurlge DPs in particular - perhaps the cost should have been adjusted accordingly (at least, for winged DPs).

[Harley]

Doesn't a FMC have to be Swooping to use Jink and if so cannot assault the same turn anyhow?

[DarkLink]

Don't see a need for this. Your Nurgle DP is one of relatively few units affected, and he's what, like 300pts? That's reasonably tough for a 300pt model.

[David Crossley]

Doesn't a FMC have to be Swooping to use Jink and if so cannot assault the same turn anyhow?

No, it just states that FMC's have jink and vector strike in addition to all the other special rules MC's have. Vector strike obviously can only be used when swooping or zooming, whereas Jink has no such restriction.

[Charon]

What I am suggesting is that the rule for Jink needs to be expanded in the Faq thus:

In addition to only being able to fire Snap Shots, units which use the Jink rule must, on the next assault (and this includes the one they are engaged in currently if they Jink against Overwatch) roll 3D6 and drop the highest die when determining their charge range. They still suffer the -2" for terrain (unless they have another rule that mitigates that). This same rule applies to any troops which disembark from an assault vehicle which used the Jink rule.

So basically you want to hit dark eldar even harder?

[Caitsidhe]

No, I don't want to any particular group hit harder than others (Dark Eldar). But I do think that Bikes which are jinking to incredible levels (usually due to their awesome riding skills) should be slowed down on the assault when they are doing the crazy serpentine. I do think that FMC with Shrouded (and there are ways to get it without being Nurgle) probably don't need to be a 2+ cover save without some penalty for it. My commentary is based on rules in balance and nothing more. I'm talking about weakening my own models too (mine more than most).

Right now Jink penalizes someone shooting but not assaulting. That is weird from a narrative standpoint, and it is weird from a balance standpoint. It interacts in horrific ways with Be'Lakor. Assuming he casts invisibility on himself or another Winged Nurgle Prince you are looking at a close combat monster that most people need a six to hit who then proceeds to ignore your hit on a 2+. If they intended for that interaction, they are idiots. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on an oversight. Why would anyone every take ANY Winged Daemon Prince that wasn't Be'lakor or Nurgle? The investment in a Daemon Prince is just too steep not to take the one that will get a crazy save against all shots that don't ignore cover.

But to put things in perspective, consider my Nurgle Bikers tricked out and shrouded. Led by the appropriate CSM Warlord on a Bike, or simply racing side by side with the aforementioned Daemon Prince toward the target, and things get ugly very quickly. If this was their way of trying to put assault back into the game, I think it is ham-handed and doesn't work across the board. Look, I'm a very logistical player. If these things stay in the game as they stand, I'm going to use them. I would prefer lots of things get fixed but barring that I will have to use the weapons other people do. As my friend Kerstan (who has been playing me since 7th hit) can tell you, Winged Nurgle Daemon Princes have been so far over the top it hasn't even been funny. We have watched as two entire armies (it was two on two game) fired everything they had at my Daemon Princes and the net sum was a wound applied to each before said DPs proceeded to destroy the opposing armies with no support from the rest of my points.

[Caitsidhe]

Here is something I have already tried out, courtesy of Be'lakor. As a FMC who has Shrouded innately and all the Telepathy powers you are guaranteed to be able to keep up with your Bikes (assuming you don't Turbo Boost although I suppose if he was in the air he could keep up then too). Be'lakor casts the WC-1 Shrouding and hops alongside a full unit of tricked out Nurgle Bikers (with or without a CSM Lord too). Invisibility will be on one unit or the other. At the speed afforded them, both units will be on top of the opponent in record time and which of the crazy super-charged units are you going to shoot at when they both have a crazy save?

[Charon]

You cant just ignore the massive colateral damage you are doing to other armies just because 1 or 2 units might be a problem.
A more easy fix to MoN FMC would be to allow jink only when actually flying not when jumping.

Jink beeing better for melee than for shooting is ok balance wise as shooting is anyways superior to melee in nearly every other aspect.

[Caitsidhe]

You cant just ignore the massive colateral damage you are doing to other armies just because 1 or 2 units might be a problem.
A more easy fix to MoN FMC would be to allow jink only when actually flying not when jumping.

Jink beeing better for melee than for shooting is ok balance wise as shooting is anyways superior to melee in nearly every other aspect.

The problem is Jink wasn't created just for Flyers, nor is it just a problem for Flyers. Jink is just another easy to get save which can be boosted to extreme levels. It isn't that hard to get it with rerolls too.