Orks in another starter?

[Charon]

Right, and to anyone on the receiving end of an ork waaagh they are no less evil than Necrons or Dark Eldar. The Orks may not have a moral code but they revel in the destruction they cause. The fact they view all the other races just as sport to kill for lulz doesn't make that any less evil. It is possibly an even more extreme form of arrogance than even the eldar display. They will sacrifice trillions of human lives to save a craftworld, the orks will sacrifice a trillion human lives for lulz.

You would need an "universal code of ethics" to state that.
Sure. Anyone at the receiving end of an ork waaagh would deem them evil (except maybe other Orcs, Drak Eldar and Tyranids). As anyone else would who was on the receiving end of a war. Hunns? Evil. Persia? Evil.
Actually lore implies that orcs are some kind of biological weapon unleashed by the old ones in the last desperate stages of war. They are the same kind of "evil" as a bomb or an alligator attacking a human. they do what they where created to do.

[eldargal]

So perhaps the Orks are the most amoral of all creatures, as even the nids have a "cause" for their destruction, the accumilation of biomass.

Yup, and the difference between amorality and evil when o uare on the receiving end is negligible. I mean if we just go by a species internal morality vs our observers morality then none of the races are particularly bad except Chaos and Dark Eldar.

[Wolfshade]

Well even if you are aware and being invaded by a "moral" force then again it is negligible. "We are removing all traces of life from this planet because of the taint of Chaos", being vapourised for the individual isn't going to be a good thing, but for the imperium or perhaps smaller scale sector it is a good thing and indeed the moral thing.

Yes, I think when most people talk of evil they go from an assume moral code that is aligned to our current one, whereby humans must be aligned as good as we like to think that society as a whole is "good".

[Mr Mystery]

I still reckon Craftworld Eldar are the secret serial killer.

It was Eldrad who set the chain of events in motion that lead to Ghazghkull after all (may have been a different Farseer, but defo a Farseer!).

Orks are just Orks. They don't have the same concept of death as other species do, and probably rarely stop to realise that 'umies can't just stitch bits back on and be fine. It's even alluded to (in my favourite bit of new background) that most Orks are utterly oblivious as to who actually pilots Killa Kans!

[40kGamer]

I still reckon Craftworld Eldar are the secret serial killer.

It was Eldrad who set the chain of events in motion that lead to Ghazghkull after all (may have been a different Farseer, but defo a Farseer!).

This is why I have no problem conjuring daemons with my Eldar psykers. I see Eldar as the ultimate ends justifies the means race and if letting a few Daemons loose benefits the craftworld then so be it. Just because they oppose Chaos doesn't mean they wouldn't use it.

As for Orks... I love seeing them in the starter sets as it makes it less painful to build up the horde. They've also been the go to xenos adversary for Space Marines since RT. I still have fond memories of the 'battle at the farm' scenario.

[Path Walker]

Orks aren't aware of the concept of non-combatants, even grots and snots get involved in a scrap, they might scarper, but they're still fighting!
They're not aware that other races don't enjoy fighting as much as they do, as far as an Ork is concerned, war is a big load of fun, so bringing war to another race is a gift, allowing them all to fight and die in the best way possible, as they believe with every fibre of their being that what they're doing is good, I wouldn't call them evil.
The way humanity in the Imperium treats each other and the other races is evil, the way the Dark Eldar sacrifice and tourture people for pleasure is evil, the Tau, exploiting other cultures while misleading them about the "greater good" is pretty evil. Its a flexible concept though, thats just my view on it!

[Anggul]

It's potentially also worth considering that Warcraft players will recognise them, and will like the fact that they instinctively know how to make stuff as if I remember correctly (not a Warcraft player) the Orcs in Warcraft are known as craftsmen.

Let's not have the 'what is evil' discussion again. That horse has been beaten so hard it looks like it's ready to be consumed by a hive ship.

[Erik Setzer]

I'm more convinced than ever that the Orks were created pretty much as the galaxy's "immune system." The humans have gotten out of hand and are screwing everything up, so who does Ghazghkull target first? The Imperium. The next place Gork and Mork send him is to a location where his actions basically cause an entire hive fleet to veer off and head there, where the Orks have already shown that in sufficient numbers they will wreck Tyranids (and are growing in that area). The Great Waaagh!'s plan basically seems to be going around to various areas, create a massive war that draws everyone into a war of attrition, and by their very nature, the Orks will win. (I felt a bit sad when someone told me that Orks would eventually run out of food. Clearly they don't know how Orks work.)

The original fluff said they were made by the Brainboyz who became Snotlings; newer fluff says it was the Old Ones. It's likely the Old Ones and Brainboyz were the same, and the Orks just *think* they became Snotlings (or maybe the Snotlings have delusions of grandeur). Either way, someone created the Orks to be an unstoppable mass. That this massive army of destructive creatures can stop and take time to just enjoy sports and throw parties and goes about war mostly as a party and not really with malicious intent (though some do tend to get a bit nasty, but hey, every groups has those) suggests that they are certainly not "evil." But they are still following their "programming."

- - - Updated - - -

It's potentially also worth considering that Warcraft players will recognise them, and will like the fact that they instinctively know how to make stuff as if I remember correctly (not a Warcraft player) the Orcs in Warcraft are known as craftsmen.

Eh, Warcraft Orcs are different, and are naturally reds and browns (their green skin is a result of drinking demon blood, so green Orcs in Warcraft are tainted). Those Orcs aren't exactly "craftsmen," they were mostly nomads who knew how to make simple huts and stuff and make hunting equipment. Once they were perverted to use in a war of annihilation, they were given the means to produce better stuff, but it was still pretty crude overall. It was only after they hooked up with Goblins that they were introduced to really effective means of making war machines. I believe one of the major hooks in Warlords of Draenor is that the one Orc (Garrosh) going through a portal to an older version of their homeworld ends up teaching the Orcs how to make a lot of war engines they didn't originally know about, which just helps things get all messed up. (That's about as far into that as I can get without making people who aren't into Warcraft start seriously asking what the heck I'm rambling about.)

Though, ironically, the main reason I was drawn to Orcs in the Warcraft RTS games and then an Orc Shaman when I was finally pushed into WoW is because I loved Orks/Orcs in Warhammer so much. (And the Warcraft Orcs were originally green because they were copies of Warhammer Orcs.)

[Bear73]

I really like where this race discussion is going. Imo, Dark Eldar are the most evil. Well, beside Chaos I suppose...
I just read the recent article about "VS" boxes and they seem to be what I was anticipating in my original post.

[lets_get_em_boyz]

As an ork player i can always use more boys