Scottish Independence thread

[Psychosplodge]

Or Yorkshire. We've got North sea gas and oil too, maybe its time for independence...

[AirHorse]

Yorkshire also has Viking heritage!! That's the two main criteria pretty much sorted for you already!


Cornwall wants its independence too, problem is pastie powered cars isn't that viable

[40kGamer]

As for 40kGamer's comment - there is a strong argument for independence.

In short, all the UK is currently governed from Westminster, with some power devolved to the regional parliaments/assemblies in Cardiff, Edinburgh and wherever it is in Northern Ireland, Stormont I think.

But, Scotland is simply given a block budget, and has no powers to raise it's own taxes, set it's own budget etc. It's also limited in other powers. Many in Scotland want greater autonomy for the region, with some wanting full independence.

Large part of this is fuelled by the impression (I'll put it no stronger than that, as I'm not clued up on such things to comment further) that decisions made in Westminster for the UK negatively affect Scotland.

Also, we're a famously stubborn people, and when we want something, we want it!

Although my family left Scotland in the late 1740's I fully inherited the stubborn and independent traits. Plus I have an innate love of both kilts and the pipes.

The independence movement makes more sense with the way the government is organized. Although I actually favor a central approach to government as it reduces duplication of services and should lead to lower taxes. It is quite the balancing act to run things centrally as it requires adequate representation to insure all parties are treated in an equitable manner.

Where I currently live in the US the government is so layered and decentralized that you have to pay taxes to the federal, state, county, city (sometimes multiple cities) and often the school district you live in. This leads to a completely ridiculous amount of paperwork and redundancy. Plus for the taxes that are taken in by the government the services provided are sorely lacking.

[Mr Mystery]

The only issue with centralised Government in the UK, is that for basically my lifetime (born in 1980), it's been run entirely for the benefit of the City of London.

Every other city was pretty much left to rot, and London supported above all.

Scotland in particular had the backbone of it's economy in industry. Now industry in Britain kind of died a death, and whilst the Government don't bear the entirety of the responsibility of that, they did nothing to prevent or slow it.

Large parts of Scotland, as with other areas of Britain, suffered heavily. Glasgow in particular went right down the tubes, and nobody did much about it.

And what we have now arrived it is those living in London having little clue what life is like outside of that city and the home counties. In short, centralised government has failed large areas of Britain, and Scotland itself has always had an urge toward independence.

[40kGamer]

So basically the same thing that has happened with the city of Detroit in the US. Depressed economy, high crime rates, bankrupt local government, failed social systems... No wonder there is a movement toward independence. If you ignore someone's needs long enough it's inevitable. Somewhat similar to the events that led the colonies to rebel a couple centuries back. Does no one in politics read history?

[Mr Mystery]

Sadly, every so often the Tories get into Westminster.

This current thing kicked off in 1997, when Labour won the General Election (where every seat in the House of Commons is up for grabs) by a massive landslide. Most notably, the Tories were wiped out in Scotland, and I think also Wales. Why? Of the three main parties, only the Tories decided there would be absolutely no referendum on devolution of power to regional parliaments/assemblies.

I mean barring the usual handful of nutters, nobody is espousing an armed rebellion. But the people of Scotland want to be heard, hence the referendum on independence.

As touched on before, the Tory party have offered much of the same arrogance as 1997 with their approach to this. Alex Salmond wanted three options. Yes, No, and Devo Max. Call me Dave and his lot point blank refused a Devo Max option, using the same arguments they themselves have used for wanting Europe to reform, or the UK might leave the EU. Only now the Yes campaign has gathered more steam than they expected, the tossers in Westminster are dangling Devo Max as a carrot for voting no.....

For my buck, I don't believe Scotland will take full independence. But the fact that Westminster is trying to use the promise of greater autonomy as a bargaining chit (and one they won't have to live up to) is frankly insulting to democracy. It's probably the most popular option, so it should have been on the table from the outset. It's bull**** politics by an out of touch London Elite, and it's just possible that it might be the very thing to trigger a victory of a Yes vote.

After all, when the same arrogance and aloofness that lead to all this is still being flaunted, those who want to leave the union are far more likely to actually turn out and vote. And that is what is going to swing this one way or the other - voter turn out. The No campaign like to point out they're ahead in talking head opinion polls, so are trying to score cheap points. The Yes campaign however is getting out there and working hard to convince voters....

[Wolfshade]

Or Yorkshire. We've got North sea gas and oil too, maybe its time for independence...

Yes please go and take Leeds and Doncaster with you!

[Darren Richardson]

personallY I think the whole thing could be avoided by by making London independant from the Union instead

[Wildeybeast]

To our transatlantic cousins: are there any states that want to come back to the warm embrace of the motherland? We may have spot opening up for one of you in the future.

[Wolfshade]

I believe that Gerald Grosvenor is quite intrested in re-attaining his property..