Sybarites can now take a splinter rifle AND a power sword?

[Houghten]

And if you leave the sybarite at home too (as you should)

...then you will lose access to the phantasm grenade launcher.

[Charon]

they stand a decent chance of coming through the combat with no losses.

How do you come to this conclusion when

Maths? We're not rolling anywhere near enough dice in a gaming career, let alone a single game for statistics to make their mark.

You cant claim that mats is out of the picture in your first statement and then start to talk about "chances".

and again...

Risk management dude. You should give it a try.

You cant manage risks when you didnt calculate them before.

Grats to another post full of contradictions.

...then you will lose access to the phantasm grenade launcher.

Not really a bummer. Quite price for a very small impact (if it has an impact at all as fearless, ATSKNF is quite prominet) and doesnt even confer def. grenades anymore.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh you can take maths into account to a point - but to decide it's the be all and end all is stupid.

Now, how about actually tackling my points, rather than going for ad hominem?

[Charon]

Oh you can take maths into account to a point - but to decide it's the be all and end all is stupid.

Now, how about actually tackling my points, rather than going for ad hominem?

Because I already did that. And you probably would come to the same conclusion if you "take maths into account to a point" and start to calculate chances.
Really no rocket science to figure out if 8 shots overwatch and 4 attacks in melee with 4 hitpoints are better or equal or worse than 2 shots overwatch, with 1 hitpoint and 2 attacks with ap3.

[eldargal]

A power weapon on a kabalite squad you want to hold an objective can be useful, can help keep them alive to at least contest th objective or until some assistance arrives.

[Mr Mystery]

So by introducing a cheap enough power weapon, you agree that your opponent is now faced with a very different tactical risk yes?

And that's bad because?

Now then, 8 shots overwatch? Where are you getting that from? 10 Splinter Rifles get 20 shots on overwatch. And the more dice you roll, the more chances you have at getting 6's, and thus hits. And so on and so forth. And that is precisely where relying on statistics falls down on it's arse.

Same with the Power Weapon. It removes a potential two rolls from the pot. Two hits, two wounds, two casualties, as opposed to Two hits, two wounds, two 3+ saves after.

On balance, I think I would prefer to keep the Splinter Rifle, as that allows the Sybarite to partake in the dakka. Giving him the pistol does indeed generate a solitary extra attack - which is utterly wasted if your opponent doesn't assault.

As I said - flex, flex and flex again. If your unit can fulfil a single role, then it risks missing out on the battle entirely, or being sidelined during crucial tipping points.

So there very much is a point in buying that power weapon. Many may consider it not worth the bother, and that's one thing. But declaring it universally pointless? That's another thing entirely.

[Charon]

So by introducing a cheap enough power weapon, you agree that your opponent is now faced with a very different tactical risk yes?

No, I dont agree. Thats not a "very" different tactical risk. Oh noez he has a small chance of killing 1 marine and an astronomical small chance of killing 2. Doesnt really make it "very different".

Get more guns and more bodys (for the same price) and you get their chances of doing the exact same thing up by a higher margin AND have an astronomical small chance of killing even more than 2.

THAT is very different.

Now then, 8 shots overwatch? Where are you getting that from?

From the 4 Kabalites I can by for the cost of a Sybarite + power weapon.

On balance, I think I would prefer to keep the Splinter Rifle, as that allows the Sybarite to partake in the dakka. Giving him the pistol does indeed generate a solitary extra attack - which is utterly wasted if your opponent doesn't assault.

But the 15 points on a power weapon are not wasted then?

As I said - flex, flex and flex again. If your unit can fulfil a single role, then it risks missing out on the battle entirely, or being sidelined during crucial tipping points.

You have to misplay VERY HARD when a ranged unit misses out on the battle entirely. Besides every point you put in a unit to make it marginally better at another aspect of the game cuts the same points on units that could perform in that aspect a lot.

But declaring it universally pointless?

Not universally. It has its place in dedicated Assault units or you could even argue in units that still perform assault tasks decently (Space Marine Tacticals for example). But for a fragile shooty unit that gets obliterated in melee anyways? Complete waste of points.

A power weapon on a kabalite squad you want to hold an objective can be useful, can help keep them alive to at least contest th objective or until some assistance arrives.

Power Weapon does not keep them alive. It neither boots T, nor armor or Ld. All you have is a very small chance to mitigate 2 or 3 attacks. Not a bummer for most dedicated assault units.

[Mr Mystery]

Which is why you don't want to field it. Which is fine. Nobody is declaring it a top secret weapon that will win the game.

But it still has it's uses, should someone wish to field it.

[The Sovereign]

why shouldn't they be able to? Marine sergeants can carry a bolter and PS.

It's a bit of a surprise because they didn't have that option in the last codex.

As warriors are a primarily shooty unit, it behooves a DE player to maximize the shootiness of the unit by giving the sybarite a rifle as well. But sybarites are also high initiative, so it might be beneficial to give him a power sword to deal with marine sergeants and the like in challenges. At least that's my thought process. I'll be sure to give him haywire grenades, too.

[Charon]

Which is why you don't want to field it. Which is fine. Nobody is declaring it a top secret weapon that will win the game.

But it still has it's uses, should someone wish to field it.

Speaking as general as possible?
The nail in your had has a use. You can put your coat there if you want to.
Virtually EVERYTHING has a "use" if you dont mind putting up stupid things.