Returning to 40K - 2000pt Crimson Fists

[Iain Morrison]

Hi folks,

I used to play 40K avidly back during 2nd/3rd edition, and then life caught up and I went on to other things. I have chosen to return to 40K, and have been playing about with ideas for a fluffy army list, that's fun to play for the Crimson Fists. I'm not looking for tournament efficiency, but it would be nice to have a decent chance at winning. lol The idea is that I will base my first purchases with a view to getting the following army (will build it up in chunks). I would love to hear your thoughts:

Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fists

HQ -
Pedro Kantor

with

4 x Honour Guard - Champion, Chapter Banner, 2 x Relic Blades
Dedicated Transport - Razorback (Twin-Linked Lascannon, Dozer Blade)

Elite -
10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Combi-Melta), 7 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

Venerable Dreadnought -Assault Cannon, Dread CCW, Storm Bolter

Venerable Dreadnought - 2 x Twin-Linked Autocannons

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant with Power Fist/Storm Bolter, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant with Power Fist/Storm Bolter, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

Heavy Support -

5 Devastators - Sergeant, 4 x Lascannons

Vindicator - Siege Shield

Vindicator - Siege Shield

- 2000pts

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I think the list has a lot of good components that take advantage of your Chapter Tactics. However, I think your cc unit need a better transport. You will also need some AA so I'd recommend a Stormraven to carry Pedro and the Honor Guard into combat. I would drop both Dreadnoughts and the Honor Guard's Razorback to get this.

Side note on this... can the chapter banner stack with Pedro's bubble of +1 attack? I sort of think they don't... but if they do, that's awesome! I'd also take anothe 2 HG if you have the points. Also, I like axes on half of them and relic blades on half of them, but YMMV.

For your tactical squads, if you're going to give the sgts a power fist, you want them to be veterans so pay for the upgrade... but honestly I don't think it's worth the investment; that's a lot of points for a single character in a unit that doesn't want to be in melee anyway... mainly because he will die in a challenge and probably won't get a chance to bail out the squad anyway. Also, stick to the plasma and heavy bolter instead of plasma cannon because of being in the rhino and moving.

The sternguard are going to be really nasty if you combat squad them out of a drop pod... but in a rhino they are going to have a hard time getting where they want I think. Again, YMMV. I'd stick to 5 combi-melta and 2 heavy flamers and combat squad... lead with the melee sgt and dual heavy flamers to protect the melta squad from a charge, and to roast the contents of a transport they hopefully open on the drop.

[TheDeathJester]

Drop the banner.
Drop pod the honour guard.
Drop pod one tactical Squad.
Drop pod the stern guard.
More marines in your Dev squad, combat squad them, Place them different places.

[errant82]

Thanks guys...sorry for my delay in replying. I've had a hectic couple of weeks!

I have had a bit of a re-jig of my army list, with more of a drop pod focus:

HQ -
Pedro Kantor

with

4 x Honour Guard - Including Champion
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Elite -
10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Ironclad Dreadnought - Seismic Hammer, Dreadnought CCW, Meltagun, Stormbolter, Ironclad Assault Launchers, 2 x Hunter Killer Missiles.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant with Power Weapon/Boltgun, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Rhino (Dozer Blade)

7 x Scouts - Sergeant with Sniper Rifle, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, Heavy Bolter w/ Hellfire Shells

Heavy Support -

5 Devastators - Sergeant, 4 x Lascannons

Vindicator - Siege Shield

Vindicator - Siege Shield

- 2000pts

The idea being that there is somewhat of a mobile firebase on the field (the anvil), with the hammer being the drop pod assault. It feels characterful for the Crimson Fists (plenty of vets, some scouts, and a combination of siege tanks, heavy weapons, and plenty of bolt weapons to take advantage of the chapter tactics.). Does this look like an improvement?

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I think it looks good. A few minor tweaks I'd make though are to give the devastators just a couple extra bodies so each casualty isn't worth 30+ points. You can probably take the points from the scout squad.. I'd honestly stick with bolters and the heavy bolter... your tac squad can do without the heavy bolter and power weapon probably since they'll be on the move. But other than those tiny adjustments I think the list looks good!

[Bambi]

Sounds like you're in a similar position to me. I had a 12 year break before starting again with Crimson Fists. I like the list but have a couple of suggestions. You currently have 4 drop pods which means only two will drop first turn. You could get rid of a couple of scouts and the powerswod on the tactical sergeant to get a drop pod for the devastators. This would mean you can drop both Sternguard squads and the ironclad on turn one which would be pretty cool.

Alternatively, I would suggest getting rid of the ironclad altogether along with two scouts and the sniper rifles and use the points to get a land speeder storm for the scouts, increase the devastators squad to 10 and add a couple of extra honour guard. This way you can drop the two sternguard squads turn one and have the scouts in reserve for some late game objective grabbing (their speeder counts as objective secured to as it is a dedicated transport for a troops choice, at least I think that's right). You will also be able to combat squad the devs to take on multiple targets.

The only thing this army is lacking is some anti-flyer cover. I don't know how wedded you are to the two vindicators but these could be swapped out for two stormtalons with skyhammer missiles or if you really want a dreadnought in the army, one stormtalon and a dread of some description. Hope this helps.

[Bambi]

The sternguard are going to be really nasty if you combat squad them out of a drop pod... but in a rhino they are going to have a hard time getting where they want I think. Again, YMMV. I'd stick to 5 combi-melta and 2 heavy flamers and combat squad... lead with the melee sgt and dual heavy flamers to protect the melta squad from a charge, and to roast the contents of a transport they hopefully open on the drop.

This is a great tactic and can work a treat. It's even better considering heavy flamers are assault weapons so in some situations you may even be able to assault the target after roasting them. I have them coming out of a stormraven and if you have Kantor in this squad alongside the sternguard seargant with powerfist it means you will get 9 powerfist attacks on the charge, ouch!

[errant82]

Great advice guys! I am stuck in some what of a quandary, now. lol. I am concerned that I will be left with nothing on the table at this rate, as it will all be drop podding, or flying on from reserves. I want to maintain the flavour of the above lists (still not 100% decided whether to go mech or drop), but incorporating some kind of air defence. Trying to combine fluffy and effective, so keeping in mind Crimson Fists (veterans, scouts, siege specialists, devastators, plenty of boltguns), which direction should I be looking in?

I love vehicles, but also love the visual of pods falling from the heavens, spewing out super soldiers... Help!

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Great advice guys! I am stuck in some what of a quandary, now. lol. I am concerned that I will be left with nothing on the table at this rate, as it will all be drop podding, or flying on from reserves. I want to maintain the flavour of the above lists (still not 100% decided whether to go mech or drop), but incorporating some kind of air defence. Trying to combine fluffy and effective, so keeping in mind Crimson Fists (veterans, scouts, siege specialists, devastators, plenty of boltguns), which direction should I be looking in?

I love vehicles, but also love the visual of pods falling from the heavens, spewing out super soldiers... Help!

I think you should drop the scouts and vindicators... they don't seem like something the Crimson Fists would have left... I'd stick to some drop pods mainly, and dig in your gunline. Have you considered devastator centurions with lascannons and missiles? They have a nice 2+ save and if deployed in terrain may survive a decent opening volley of fire. Better yet, if the rest of your list is built for a turn 1 drop pod assault, you could reserve them and just walk them on firing turn 2 or later. I've been using them more and more lately over a regular dev squad and love them because of being able to shuffle around or walk on from reserves firing.

I think the Sternguard are effective in pods, and the tac squads too. I'd honestly go null deploy and pods.

[errant82]

Following above advice, I have come up with this list...Pedro drops with one of the Sternguard squads:

HQ -
Pedro Kantor

Elite -
9 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun, Melta Bombs), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Sternguard - Sergeant (Power Fist, Boltgun, Melta Bombs), 5 x Combi-Meltas, 2 x Heavy Flamers.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Ironclad Dreadnought - Seismic Hammer, Dreadnought CCW, Meltagun, Stormbolter, Ironclad Assault Launchers, 2 x Hunter Killer Missiles.
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

Troops -

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword,Boltgun, Melta Bombs), Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated Transport - Drop Pod

10 x Tacticals - Sergeant (Chainsword,Boltgun, Melta Bombs), Meltagun, Heavy Bolter
Dedicated transport - Drop Pod

Fast Attack -

Stormtalon - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missiles

Stormtalon - Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missiles

Heavy Support -

10 Devastators - Sergeant, 4 x Lascannon
Dedicated transport - Drop Pod

- 1998pts