1850 pts Iron Hands fun and fluffy

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Hey guys, I'm not a competitive player at all. I'm looking to see if anyone has any feedback about me totally missing something with this list before I start investing in the models. I like army dudes and tanks so I'm going for a mechanized infantry feel:

HQ
Master of the Forge (Warlord)
Chainsword
x1 Servitor

Troops
Tac Squad x 6
Flamer
Combi-Flamer
Melta Bombs
Rhino

Tac Squad x 6
Flamer
Combi-Flamer
Melta Bombs
Rhino

Tac Squad x 6
Flamer
Combi-Flamer
Melta Bombs
Rhino

Tac Squad x 5
Flamer
Combi-Flamer

Elites
Sternguard x 6
x4 Combi-Plasma
x1 Plasma Gun
x1 Melta Gun
Rhino

Sternguard x 6
x4 Combi-Plasma
x1 Plasma Gun
x1 Melta Gun
Rhino

Dreadnought
Power Fist w/ Heavy Flamer
Plasma Cannon

Fast Attack
Stormtalon
Skyhammer ML

Stormtalon
TL Lascannon

Heavy
Predator
Storm Bolter
Sponson Heavy Bolters

Predator
Storm Bolter
TL Lascannon
Sponson Lascannons

Vindicator
Storm Bolter


1,846 total pts.

My idea is to have the 3 Tac squads in Rhinos hunt for squishy troops units or head for objectives. The Sternguard are a bit sacrificial, but hopefully have enough firepower to hop out of a Rhino and do serious hurt to a couple units with high Toughness and Armor Saves. The Stormtalons are anti air. I want to keep the tanks together with the MOTF, Dread, and last Tac squad (without Rhino). That way they can sit on an objective and provide huge support fire, while hopefully the MOTF and servitor can keep them alive as long as possible, plus there are a few flamers for overwatch if assaulted.

Any feedback is much appreciated, thanks!

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

The problem with lists like this is that they're not made up of units that are very effective at any one particular task which will leave you wanting more from every unit every time. For example:

The Predators want to be good at tank hunting, but they aren't fast so they can't move and get a good vantage point to make shots effectively the same turn. Don't ever take Predators. If you want a nice heavy hitting tank, take a Vindicator with siege shield (so it can just barrel forward) or a Land Raider actually (whatever variant fits your style and needs). I'd take two Vindicators and a Land Raider Redeemer if it were up to me.

Your Master of the Forge needs somewhere to be safe, and effective. You will either want him on a bike with the conversion beamer, sitting back and firing with a gun-line, or in a Land Raider keeking it alive with repair rolls - I'd prefer the latter.

As for the air support, dual Stormtalons are nice although I'd stick with Skyhammer Missiles on both of them; they're cheap, and pair well with the types of targets the S6 assault cannons will want to shoot at.

The Sternguard are nice because of their special ammo (wounding on 2+) or their ability to all take combi-weapons and be deployed right where you need them via drop pod. So either take them bare-bones in a Rhino, or preferably in a drop pod to come down and precision strike something like a vehicle or monstrous creature (I like this with plasma and/or grav).

The Tactical Squads do best when all of them can shoot the same type of target and hurt it... so flamers are fine but just be careful that they are not ignored because they can't threaten other tough units... I normally would suggest melta and combi-melta because you can then threaten another troop's transport which you'll be battling with over and objective.

Hope that helps!

[Katharon]

Clincher, in case you missed it, he did say "fun and fluffy." It's not meant to be a competitive list.

Personally I like it. It has a lot of mobility and potential to disrupt even a competitive army if used well tactically.

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Clincher, in case you missed it, he did say "fun and fluffy." It's not meant to be a competitive list.

Personally I like it. It has a lot of mobility and potential to disrupt even a competitive army if used well tactically.

Yeah and when someone realizes that some of the units they are using will actually do nothing well, they get frustrated and stop playing.. you want at least some of the units to be fun to use.. being stuck with flamers against things that stay at range just isn't fun. When you warlord dies on the first turn every single game because he just stands there in the open isn't fun...there's nothing wrong with a little advice on how to make the list he thinks will be fun (for fluff reasons in his own head) actually work - especially before he spends a whole bunch of money on models he'll soon never use... I sure wish someone did that for me when I first started playing :/ ha

[Mad Cat]

Looks an ok list.

HQ: with his 1 servitor the warlord is now a unit of 2 men so cannot join other units as the servitor is not wargear nor does he/it have the IC rule. Ditch the servitor and join a Tac squad or sternguard unit.

Troops: Fine. I would make 1 or 2 units into melta armed squads to give you the option against tanks.

Elites: Drop pod for the sternguard is a good Idea. If you took one 10 strong unit you could combat squad them on arrival into 2x5. As you do this you can choose which chaps (armed with which guns) go in each unit. This helps either kill a LR by having all meltas in one combat squad or try for 2 rhinos by having the meltas split equally etc. This frees up points which I would spend on a drop pod for the dread and consider multi-melta for it as it now gets in close or even an Ironclad.

Fast: Nice. Note that 5 man assault squads with 2 flamers in pods or rhinos for 95 points are great and cheaper than your TAC squads. One of these could give you a third pod to get 2 to arrive turn one.

Heavy: OK. remove the S-bolter form the antitank pred (move it to a rhino?) as it won't be engaging unarmoured infantry that often.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

The problem with lists like this is that they're not made up of units that are very effective at any one particular task which will leave you wanting more from every unit every time. For example:

The Predators want to be good at tank hunting, but they aren't fast so they can't move and get a good vantage point to make shots effectively the same turn. Don't ever take Predators. If you want a nice heavy hitting tank, take a Vindicator with siege shield (so it can just barrel forward) or a Land Raider actually (whatever variant fits your style and needs). I'd take two Vindicators and a Land Raider Redeemer if it were up to me.

Actually, I built the list so that each unit or group of units would do a specific job well. So perhaps I've totally missed the mark and you can enlighten me. For instance, you say Predators want to be good at tank hunting. I'm anticipating using the Lascannon tank to hit units/or monstrous creatures that have high toughness and high armor save. To me lascannons aren't for tank hunting, that's what meltas and chainfists are for. The autocannon/hvy bolter tank is to try to gun down any lighter droops that deepstrike in close to my tanks/tac squad/hq/dread huddling around an objective. The Vindicator? Now this one I don't have a purpose for. I just put it in there so that if an opportunity comes up, it can beat some face

I definitely don't understand how a Land Raider would be better for tank hunting than one or two lascannon Predators though. Trust me, I toyed with the idea of putting the MOTF and some Terminators in a LR Redeemer, with the intent of delivering the Terms into an assault where they can rip through a tough enemy unit....but the LR and Terms are about 500 points. Ouch. I just don't see that being worth it. It's very possible I'm totally wrong though since I'm still very new to this game.

Your Master of the Forge needs somewhere to be safe, and effective. You will either want him on a bike with the conversion beamer, sitting back and firing with a gun-line, or in a Land Raider keeking it alive with repair rolls - I'd prefer the latter.

Again, I may have to revisit the LR ideas I had for this reason. My hope was that the MOTF would be safe enough sandwiched in between some tanks (for cover). I was also thinking that being with the Rhinoless Tac squad would provide some Look out Sir rolls, but as Mad Cat pointed out, I'd need to ditch the servitor for that to happen.

The Sternguard are nice because of their special ammo (wounding on 2+) or their ability to all take combi-weapons and be deployed right where you need them via drop pod. So either take them bare-bones in a Rhino, or preferably in a drop pod to come down and precision strike something like a vehicle or monstrous creature (I like this with plasma and/or grav).

This is essentially what I'm doing. I have them kittted out with Plasmas so they can rip into units with high toughness/armour. I'm using Rhinos instead of Drop pods just for flavor, style, and preference. I realize Rhinos are much slower, can get blown up, etc., and that mechanized infantry lists are generally thought of to be inferior.

Thanks again for your feedback, this has given me lots of things to think about, especially with the Land Raiders. If you have any additional thoughts I'd love to hear them.

- - - Updated - - -

Clincher, in case you missed it, he did say "fun and fluffy." It's not meant to be a competitive list.

Personally I like it. It has a lot of mobility and potential to disrupt even a competitive army if used well tactically.

I appreciate your feedback.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Looks an ok list.

HQ: with his 1 servitor the warlord is now a unit of 2 men so cannot join other units as the servitor is not wargear nor does he/it have the IC rule. Ditch the servitor and join a Tac squad or sternguard unit.

Troops: Fine. I would make 1 or 2 units into melta armed squads to give you the option against tanks.

Elites: Drop pod for the sternguard is a good Idea. If you took one 10 strong unit you could combat squad them on arrival into 2x5. As you do this you can choose which chaps (armed with which guns) go in each unit. This helps either kill a LR by having all meltas in one combat squad or try for 2 rhinos by having the meltas split equally etc. This frees up points which I would spend on a drop pod for the dread and consider multi-melta for it as it now gets in close or even an Ironclad.

Fast: Nice. Note that 5 man assault squads with 2 flamers in pods or rhinos for 95 points are great and cheaper than your TAC squads. One of these could give you a third pod to get 2 to arrive turn one.

Heavy: OK. remove the S-bolter form the antitank pred (move it to a rhino?) as it won't be engaging unarmoured infantry that often.

Great feedback, thanks. I suppose my only response is that I put wimpy Storm Bolters on the bigger tanks so that if they suffer a Weapon Destroyed hit, there is a chance the bolter gets destroyed instead of a weapon that's actually valuable.

[Katharon]

All lot about this army is going to rely on your generalship. You will have to make target priority vitally important - making sure you have units going after something they can go against and kill reasonably well. Deployment will also be important. While some people swear against it, I always like deploying second. Reacting to a deployment and then forcing your opponent to react to you is something that always assures a disturbance in their game pacing.