Got the Eldar Codex, first impressions

[Defenestratus]

I have spotted some oddities with some of the in dependant characters.

Barbarity does not have intercept
Karandras does not have stalker
Maughan ra does not get the reaper launcher

The autarch has gone from his original incarnation of uber aspect warrior leader to (for certain aspects) a complete numpty who also turned up. For banshee he looses them acrobatic (wait for me). Scorpions the extra camo (could you not work a little more green into your uniform). Avengers there defend over watch ability (.....no i can't see the logic behind that one). It is also if a correctly equips it is unclear if he can use or looses warp spiders their flicker jump.
Other aspects don't loose their abilities.

Dave l

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I meant reaper range finder

Interesting. I emailed GW about the PL's as it really does seem that they should have those abilities. Especially Baharroth!

[40kGamer]

You never see grav bikers run like that, as they need 5 models to be troops. If you want pure grav, you need a command squad, which I mention. The issue with grav weapons is their lack of flexibility. They're really good at killing Riptides and Terminators, and worthless against Imperial Knights. Scatter laser jetbikes have their own gaps, but those are covered by the rest of the Eldar army far better than SMs tend to cover their weaknesses. Who cares about killing heavy armor when you can spam Str D

The jetbikes would actually be quite liveable if it wasn't for the heavy weapons for all option! Why they went away from the 1 in 3 I have no idea... It makes the jetbikes actually better than War Walkers at doing the mass Scatter spam. I ran EQ PV jetbikes vs a SM Command bike squad with Grav and equivalent Scatterbikes simply murder them.

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Interesting. I emailed GW about the PL's as it really does seem that they should have those abilities. Especially Baharroth!

Good luck getting that answer. They've been pretty unresponsive for a while now.

[Defenestratus]

The jetbikes would actually be quite liveable if it wasn't for the heavy weapons for all option! Why they went away from the 1 in 3 I have no idea... It makes the jetbikes actually better than War Walkers at doing the mass Scatter spam. I ran EQ PV jetbikes vs a SM Command bike squad with Grav and equivalent Scatterbikes simply murder them.

I'm the reason.

I'm the reason why made it so every bike could be upgraded. Because yousee I already had like 30 jetbikes of different configurations. If the rule was 1-in-3 can upgrade, all I'd need is what... 2 boxes of the new models to make it work? However, with it being every model in the unit and making it cost reasonably to do so, its GW's hope that I just go ahead and buy 10 boxes of the ****ers to throw out my old models.

Its a blatant case of rules pushing models which they've always done, but between this book and the necrons codex, I think you can see that GW isn't really trying to be shy about that fact anymore.

[ShadowcatX]

His condescending attitude is a real plus, too.


You never see grav bikers run like that, as they need 5 models to be troops. If you want pure grav, you need a command squad, which I mention. The issue with grav weapons is their lack of flexibility. They're really good at killing Riptides and Terminators, and worthless against Imperial Knights. Scatter laser jetbikes have their own gaps, but those are covered by the rest of the Eldar army far better than SMs tend to cover their weaknesses. Who cares about killing heavy armor when you can spam Str D?

As to forgeworld, those two units are very good, but far from OP. They're mainly common because the SM codex has pretty bad internal balance, and they cover major gaps in the SM arsenal. Ignores Jink is half the reason to run a Sicaran, and without Wave Serpent spam you will see a lot fewer of them. Considering how small the impact forgeworld has had on the west coast meta, the idea that it's any more OP than anything in standard 40k is laughable.

First, cut the hypocrisy, my tone wasn't half what yours was, and has been in general.

Second, you said nothing about scatter bikes putting out more damage than troops choices, you said power armor. Don't change your argument when proven wrong. Ditto the rest of the army argument, you singled out jetbikes, and that is what I'm calling you on.

Third, there are tons of reasons something OP may not be effecting the meta in a huge way. But, when you listed the three things every space marine player was taking, 2 of the three are forge world and horus herasy specifically. Is there a non-power army that also fields that much forgeworld in every tournament list?

[Houghten]

Second, you said nothing about scatter bikes putting out more damage than troops choices,

Indeed he didn't. He said that nobody takes Marine bikes except as Troops choices, thus excluding the every-member-has-grav three-man units from consideration on the grounds that they're never taken (which, given you're going on about tournament lists now, seems entirely fair).

Is there a non-power army that also fields that much forgeworld in every tournament list?

Is there a non-Marine army that has the option to? Half the IG stuff is plastic now, Dark Eldar have two skimmers and one flier that should have been retired in 2009, Eldar have a few things that mostly look pretty, Ork stuff is... well, it's Ork stuff...

[daboarder]

Indeed he didn't. He said that nobody takes Marine bikes except as Troops choices, thus excluding the every-member-has-grav three-man units from consideration on the grounds that they're never taken (which, given you're going on about tournament lists now, seems entirely fair).



Is there a non-Marine army that has the option to? Half the IG stuff is plastic now, Dark Eldar have two skimmers and one flier that should have been retired in 2009, Eldar have a few things that mostly look pretty, Ork stuff is... well, it's Ork stuff...

Nids almost ALWAYS run malanthropes if they are allowed.

[The Girl]

Quick reminder: we're talking toy soldiers. Keep the comments to the game and not about other users.

[40kGamer]

I'm the reason.

I'm the reason why made it so every bike could be upgraded. Because yousee I already had like 30 jetbikes of different configurations. If the rule was 1-in-3 can upgrade, all I'd need is what... 2 boxes of the new models to make it work? However, with it being every model in the unit and making it cost reasonably to do so, its GW's hope that I just go ahead and buy 10 boxes of the ****ers to throw out my old models.

Its a blatant case of rules pushing models which they've always done, but between this book and the necrons codex, I think you can see that GW isn't really trying to be shy about that fact anymore.

Ack! You should have told them us long timers would have bought the new bikes regardless! Might have avoided some of the unpleasantness!

[DarkLink]

Indeed he didn't. He said that nobody takes Marine bikes except as Troops choices, thus excluding the every-member-has-grav three-man units from consideration on the grounds that they're never taken (which, given you're going on about tournament lists now, seems entirely fair).

Right, you mainly see two types of bikes in SM bike lists; troops and command squads. Command squads get more grav guns, which is why I mentioned them in my earlier post and not bike troops. Granted, I didn't actually check the points costs to see which gets more grav shots per point, but I'm pretty sure it's the command squad.

Is there a non-Marine army that has the option to? Half the IG stuff is plastic now, Dark Eldar have two skimmers and one flier that should have been retired in 2009, Eldar have a few things that mostly look pretty, Ork stuff is... well, it's Ork stuff...

Eldar has a couple options, but they seem rare, which I find odd because Hornets are brutally good. The Lynx and Warp Hunters had their moments in the sun, but the Warp Hunter rules were revised and the Lynx has ranged D so it's probably gone. Daboarder mentioned Malanthropes, which are extremely common. Thudd Guns and Sabre Defense Platforms are fairly common in IG, though less so now that Skyfire has been nerfed and Wyverns out-wound Thudd Guns. I'm sure there are a couple units scattered across other armies that matter (notably, CSM also get Sicarans and Fire Raptors along with a lot of chaos versions of the other SM forgeworld toys), but when it comes to meta-changing units, Forgeworld doesn't have many.

I'll also note that Fire Raptors and Sicarans are awesome models, which certainly doesn't hurt their popularity.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So I just realized you can equip grav-tanks, and vypers with the EML that has starhawk missiles standard. Giving your model 3 different types of shots for a relatively cheap upgrade. Yet Dark reapers don't get the option. Sad elves are sad. Which kinda asks the question, would you take an exarch with a DL with Autocannon or Icarus cannon with the Dark Reapers since they have so much range and the exarch gets fast shot?