Why doesnt GW understand glass cannons...

[Havik110]

okay 1st of all I am a Dark Eldar player. Dark eldar was my 1st army back in 4th about 10 years ago.

I will go on record saying that I honestly miss that old pamphlet (aside from points costs) and it performed better from 4-5th than this new codex performs in the current game. The main reason for this is there were no where near the same amount of shots being put out in a game. There are honestly more shots put out in 1 turn now compared to when everything was 5 man laz/plas squads and devastators and this is what GW doesnt get or simply doesnt care about. T3 models with a 5+ save and later on a 5+ FNP with a poison weapon are pretty lack luster especially compared to the current shuriken catapolts and their demi rend...

So how do we fix it.

I have a bunch of ideas, one includes changing the game's cover mechanic (or just added rules to our skimmers) to include modifiers to hit (as opposed to a leaf saving you from a lascannon) so the speed of our transports actually means something. We dont get a cover same, we get harder to hit.

If hoping for that is too much i want to bring back the old skimmers moving fast rule from 4th, if a skimmer moves fast (over 6 inches) you can only glance it. (it doesnt make a huge difference but it does save our troops from blowing up a little better)

The next change is to make the army a true glass cannon army (not counting the coven aspects).
1. power from pain - Take away FNP...that doesnt fit...we didnt have it for 12 years and now there is so much str6 shooting that FNP is pretty much garbage...DE are either in their raiders, or in your lines, if they are out in the open their commander failed and they should die..they dont get harder to kill they would start killing YOU harder. Add FC or +1 st for 2nd turn, 3rd turn +1 Attack or rage, 4th turn reroll to hits, 5th turn assault 12 inches all the time, turn 6 turn reroll to wound (looks like 3rd edition drugs minus always hits 1st)

2. Give our rifles more shots, make them rapid fire 3, this makes us want to get to 12 inches. this may hurt some monstrous creatures (not the knight or other gargantuans) but wounding on 4s all the time isnt bad but not great against other T3 models...its better than our old st3 splinters that i never bothered to shoot for the most part...on top of this make our skimmers stabilized weapon platforms, in this case, we can move a full 12 and shoot at full BS, including heavy weapons (stop complaining, 1 extra St8 shot into a troops unit doesnt break the bank)

3. Give our wyches more attacks in CC. All wyches need to be base 2 attacks if not 3. Most of them have no power weapons and the ones that do are St3 so not the scariest unit on the block. Also with agonisers only AP3 they have completely had their threat to terminators removed...I would also go back to my 3rd edition pamphlet and give us back our wych weapons rule (4th edition not 5th, that faq was BS), 1/2 the weapon skill of people we are fighting unless they are double str, and subtract their extra close combat weapon attack (if they have it). then give our specialist wych weapons something cool, nets subtract strength the same way night goblins netters do. Hydra gauntlets add d6 attacks to models wearing them, and once per game 2d6 but then they burn out, flails get reroll everything and rending. Give them back blasters in case we want to run a complete wych cult army, and give us back our haywire grenades at 4 points a model the same as 3rd edition...

4. Blood Brides should be like veterans of marines in that they can take any CC weapon they want, this includes power weapons, agonisers, and wych specialist weapons. the fact that they are just 1 extra attack and Leadership is beyond stupid. these girls start off at 3 base attacks if not 4. WS5 for all bloodbrides.

5. Trueborn are the same, if you want the entire squad to take all special weapons its all good...BS5 for trueborn

6. Hellions, need another shot and another attack

7. Scourges are good, drop armor to 5...nothing in the book other than incubi have armor above 5...

8. Incubi, we had blasters and grenades for 12-14 years...give them back...

9. Mandrakes, give them back their old deployment rules, give them the deamon 5++ save and make them harder to hit...remember in my book stealth is minus 1 to hit, not a cover save...

10. Give archons and Hemos access to skyboards and bikes like they had for so long...if craftworld can still have thear warlocks on bikes, we can have our hemos on bikes (we used to be able to take 6 with liquifiers (forgot their old names)) and our archons on a bike with a punisher was ST6, +1 A, and always strikes 1st if we needed it

11. Give our bikes the flyover attack and not the hammer of wrath BS...those bikes have 5+ saves, they dont want to be in CC with anything...

12. let all DLs have the disintegrator 2ndary rule. We are not the craft worlders, we have no specialists, every thing in our army is a generalist. Make them hit more often and it helps us out.

13. Give us some sort of psychic protection or the ability to pop psychers like the old crucible not this new POS...

14. I will post more but lunch is over...

In short, we are a glass cannon and FNP is useless for us...put the points into More attacks and actually allow us to get into CC (my stealth mechanic of trading in cover saves for making us harder to hit which i think the cover rule should be anyways)

[YorkNecromancer]

I always liked the idea of simply inverting the Power From Pain table - you start amazing, but bleed out your power as you use it up in realspace. Basically if you haven't won by turn 3, you ain't winning, so you best be super-aggressive.

Other changes? Maybe just give Wyches a flat 4++ (like Imperial Assassins), and make Haywire grenades a squad upgrade. The problem you've got is that there are basically six flavours of Eldar assault:

Howling Banshees - MEQ killers.
Incubi - TEQ killers.
Striking Scorpions - Horde killers.
Wraithblades - TEQ assault specialists.

Which leaves wyches as the 'disposable cannon fodder' and Bloodbrides as the 'what exactly do I do?'

I'd maybe make Wyches roughly an assault version of Imperial Guard conscripts; dirt cheap, but with terrible shooting replaced by average melee. Bloodbrides would then be far, far better (as befits the Darwinian survivors of the arenas, and make them Banshee-equivelant MEQ killers, but with way more attacks and less AP - the sort of unit that wins through weight of attacks instead of AP - like the Leman Russ Punisher. Give them Str 3, AP- and 8 attacks each: death by bee stings.

[Lost Vyper]

I would be happy with just few changes myself (but nice ideas on your part!) :

1) An upgrade for our transports against flamers --> less hits or no hits for the passengers at all? This alone, would gimme a chance even PLAY AGAINST my friends Grey Knights with those stupid torrent flamers...
2) Bring the Baron back godz dammit! I just made a model for him and bought over ten Hellions, which are now utterly useless...Baron and them to be troops again, would do it...
3) Where´s our LOW? Where´s our free stuff due to a Formation? Oh, yeah, maybe the next codex, cos GW doesn´t FAQ with us anymore...

I actually do not hate the new codex, it´s just less options now-a-dayz...

- Lost Vyper

[Fueldrop]

Breaking my DE out of the mothballs (3rd edition models. Still have the old codex! thought I'd lost them ) and looking through the latest codex now. 75 points for WS 8 In 8 4 attacks base?!?

Whatever else you say about DE HQs, on raw skill we're pretty much peerless. Slow on the draw is another phrase which does not come to mind when examining them.

Should be interesting to see how well I can make them work in the world.

[CoffeeGrunt]

in this case, we can move a full 12 and shoot at full BS, including heavy weapons (stop complaining, 1 extra St8 shot into a troops unit doesnt break the bank)

As Fast Skimmers, you can move 12" and shoot two weapons, unless you're talking about the Ravager here? Also IMO Terminators shouldn't really be dropping to a cheap Troops choice, they're pretty disappointing as they are right now.

[Charon]

As Fast Skimmers, you can move 12" and shoot two weapons

But the units on the transport can't. Which makes heavy weapons on them (or on the army in general) pretty pointless.

[Havik110]

basically my opinion is that the DE are supposed to be a glass cannon but lack the offense to be a true glass cannon...so they have just the glass going for them...JMO...sure we have some quality shots in the form of lances but in todays game its easier to hull point a vehicle down with6 or 7 str 6 or 7 shots than 1 St 8 shot...

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah, ultimately a Dark Lance is just a Lascannon that's better against AV14 only. Against AV13 it's rolling the same to Pen, and against AV12 or under it's worse. Unless you're facing Land Raider spam or a wall of Russes, it's a bit lacklustre.

Problem is that DE don't seem to be able to mass them in the same way other armies can do with Lascannons. Tau have a similar problem with Railguns.

Like you said, they're the Glass Cannon without the Cannon. Craftworld Eldar these days are sadly the Glass Cannon without the Glass.

[Mr Mystery]

Thought Dark Lances were Assault 1 rather than Heavy 1?

[Havik110]

Thought Dark Lances were Assault 1 rather than Heavy 1?

thats a blaster...

Back in our 3rd edition codex (during 4th) we had sniper squads...10 man warriors squads with 2 lances for 100 points...so we would sit on the back edge of the table in a raider with night shields, not move and fife off 3 lance shots *6 before we bothered with our wyches with blasters, incubi with blasters, and their raiders...

in essence, much more cannon even though we were made of glass and cardborad...most of the time we didnt even bother with our St3 rifles since you would only shoot 1 shot if you didnt move at 24 inches and we generally only had 7 per squad...

GW took away our wych's and incubi's blasters which really hurt the ability to run full cc armies..

GW says speed is a weapon however you hit a raider that has moved 30 inches as easily as a lemun russ battle tank that has been in the same spot for 2 turns...that is dumb.. you have to hit vs your targets WS in assault, what prevents you from shooting differently based on how fast a target moved, how massive the target it (or small)...its why I want modifiers to hit...