Age of Sigmar Azyr Composition Rules 1.0b

[Jonathan Yeo]

The rules look pretty good and I am eager to try them out. Just a quick question, curious why the black coach for vampire counts is under heroes as say compared to the necrosphinx of engine of the gods which are under warmachine/ monsters in the other lists. Having a black coach as a hero seems to limit the vampire counts in terms of hero choices.

[Auticus]

The force multiplier I'm being very careful of.

The problem came to light when quarellers were being used. 1 for 10 is right but 2 for 20 is not since they were firing 40 shots at that point.

to your example, 30 halberdiers cost 3 points in this system (1 pt for 10). 10 iron guts can't exist, they are 1 point for 3 so 9 are 3 points. I'd say 30 halberdiers and 9 iron guts costing the same are in the ballpark in terms of their cost.

[Shogunate]

Ogres have 4 wounds dude. They do however deal 2 damage to the enemy unit with every solid clubbing.

3, if you're an Irongut.

And looking once more at the Ogre Warscrolls....I think I may have to dig out my Gnoblars (oooer missus)

Ogres, and monstrous infantry in general, need a point increase under this proposed system.

It's frustrating. The new system in which monsters lose attacks as they take wounds really should have been applied to monstrous infantry.

OP, I like a lot of what you've done, but the simplistic route isn't viable. A algebraic points system needs to be worked out from the ground up, and then through playtesting and community feedback we can tweak these to allow for some semblance of balance.

[paramitas]

Hi there, thanks so much for Azyr Comp. It's the best that I've seen so far. I hope it continues to evolve.

Looking forward to the new units' comp next week. In the interim, would love your preliminary views on whether any of the following need modification:

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth - 3
Lord-Relictor - 1
Liberators - 1 for 5
Prosecutors - 1 for 3
Retributors - 1 for 3
Mighty Lord of Khorne - 2
Bloodsecrator - 1
Bloodstoker - 1
Blood Warriors - 1 for 5
Bloodreavers - 1 for 10
Khorgoraths - 2

[kaintxu]

Hi Auticus,

First of all I want to thank you for developing this, and would love to offer any help in future developments to make this improve.

I had a long post ready which didn´t go through last night because my internet decided to crash, so Im going to resume a bit.

The main point is that maybe the point scale should be base into something a bit bigger though not huge, something like a 1, 2, 3 base per 10 models for infantry, instead of the current one which is more like 1 per 10 o 1 per 5.

Im gonna give a clear example of how it does not work.

Saurus warriors, Templeguard, Chose.

It is clear that temple guard can not be the same cost as saurus warriors because they save better and hit harder and the extra rules but...

Temple guard and chose can not be the same 1 for 5 cost for the next reason.

1) Both have 3 attack, but the third attack is better on chose.
2) Both have similar quality rules for the unit, either buffing them or buffing units around.

BUT

3) while the shield on the temple guard helps, the chosen have 2 wounds each, so for 1 pooint for 5 models the chose get 10 wounds while the temple guard get 5 wounds. After doing the math yesterday, 5 temple guard attacking 5 chose will kill 1 chose and leave 1 wounded. 5 chose attacking the temple guard will kill 4 guys. So while the damage output is similar 3,5 wounds done by the temple guard to 4 by the chose, Losing 4 models instead of only 2 is a huge difference. On bigger units, lets say 20 man units, the difference becomes even larger. 20 temple guard will cause 14 wounds, killing 7 chosen and leaving 13 alive with 26 wounds to go, while 20 chose will cause 16 wounds leaving only 4 alive.

So as you can see, the difference is very huge.

A more similar value could be for Saurus, 1 point every 10, for temple guard 2 every 10, and for chose 3 every 10. That is still not balanced (2 wounds goes a long way) but at leave for every 20 chosen you could get 30 temple guard, which is still less wounds, but would compensate thanks to damage output.

I would love to work with you on this, so send me a pm if you would like collaboration.

That is only a small example, but could be work on.

Again, thanks

[Auticus]

Weekend playtest results modifications
Shooting into combat - default rule allows for it now but half attacks hit your own side.
Optional Shooting into combat +1 missile units and warmachine points but keep the rules as written.
Cleaned up beastmen monsters
Skull Cannon dropped to 1 point
Heinrich Kemmler raised to 2 points
Iron guts raised to 2 points for 3
Blight kings/skullreapers/wrathmongers - changed to 1 point for 3 from 1 point for 5 (modified min size from their scroll)

[Auticus]

Changed hero composition to just cap heroes out at a total value. Allows 4 point heroes in 15 point games.
Khazrak One Eye - 2 pts
Malagor the Dark Omen - 2 pts
Morghur Master of SKull - 2 pts
Karanak - 2 pts
Blue Scribes - 2
Hellebron - 2
Belegar Ironhammer - 2
Balthasar Gelt - 2
Valten - 2
Ludwig Schwarzhelm - 2
Teclis - 2 and a maybe 3
Wurrzag da great green prophet - 2
Queek 2
warlord spinetail 2
Ikit Claw - 2
Throt the Unclean - 2
Lord Skrolk - 2
Deathmaster Snikch - 2
Prince Apophas - 2
Vlad VonCarstein - 2
Count Mannfred - 2
Konrad Von Carstein - 2
Isabella Von Carstein - 2
Krell - 2
Bel'akor - 3
Valkia - 2
Skarr Bloodwrath - 2
Sigvald - 2
Vilitch the Curseling - 2

[Laurens]

Auticus, I registered just to write about your composition rules. IMHO they are the best available on the internet, fantastic work sir.
I am WE player and I am playtesting the rules.

I played last game WE against WoC, WE had 2 units of 15 waywatchers (6 points for both), Glade Lord (1 point) and a unit of 15 dryads (3 points).
Chaos player had a Chaos Lord (1 pt) in a unit of 10 chosen (4 points) , 10 chaos warriors (2pt), 2 units of 10 marauders (2 pts for both), a unit of 5 chaos knights (2 pts), a 5 unit of warhounds (1 pt).

So it was 10 points of wood elves against 12 points of chaos warriors. We decided to make a chaos player a bit OP and see what will happen.
At the end only 6 chaos warriors remained on the field (worth approximately 1 point).

WE player turtled behind a defence screen of 15 dryads and waited. We didn't allow shooting if unit was engaged in combat.
Chaos Lord managed to summon a unit of 10 chaos marauders twice before he was slain. Both units tried to flank the waywatchers, both summoned units were cut down with arrows before they managed to charge. A unit of 5 chaos knights, a unit of marauders and a unit of warhounds were cut before contact too. He charged with a unit of marauders, chosen and chaos warriors in my screen of dryads who were butchered.

Overall, it was a fantastic game. If WE player was allowed to shoot while in melee , the game would have ended in total chaos defeat so I think that it is good that isn't allowed. At the end it was minor victory for chaos.

I will let you know when I playtest more games.

[Brother Glacius]

Please take a hard look at all multi-wound units. MW units in this game have a huge advantage over others. They are not as affected by battleshock to the degree like single wound units. Also, you might look into putting in size caps for units. That could be used as a balancing factor as well. Large units of MW models are ace in this game.

Also, how are you playing summoning? In our club we have a debate currently as to what you can summon and what you can't. Some of us believe that you can't summon a unit unless its warscroll is already in play, ie, the unit is on the field. Others think that wizards have all of the summoning spells from a faction, regardless if the unit is present or not.

I believe that if a warscroll is not in play (ie the unit is not on the table), then its summoning spell is not granted to the wizards. The logic behind it is this:
A wizard warscroll states which spells it has. A unit's warscroll that can be summoned grants the spell to the wizards. Therefore, if that unit is not in play, then you don't have that warscroll, and thus you don't have it granting the spell.

This is just my interpretation, but it seems logical and also limits summoning. Coupled with the fact that each wizard can only attempt a spell once keeps models like Nagash from going crazy.

Nice job on trying to wrangle this thing. Don't get discouraged.

[Auticus]

Please take a hard look at all multi-wound units. MW units in this game have a huge advantage over others. They are not as affected by battleshock to the degree like single wound units. Also, you might look into putting in size caps for units. That could be used as a balancing factor as well. Large units of MW models are ace in this game.

Also, how are you playing summoning? In our club we have a debate currently as to what you can summon and what you can't. Some of us believe that you can't summon a unit unless its warscroll is already in play, ie, the unit is on the field. Others think that wizards have all of the summoning spells from a faction, regardless if the unit is present or not.

I believe that if a warscroll is not in play (ie the unit is not on the table), then its summoning spell is not granted to the wizards. The logic behind it is this:
A wizard warscroll states which spells it has. A unit's warscroll that can be summoned grants the spell to the wizards. Therefore, if that unit is not in play, then you don't have that warscroll, and thus you don't have it granting the spell.

This is just my interpretation, but it seems logical and also limits summoning. Coupled with the fact that each wizard can only attempt a spell once keeps models like Nagash from going crazy.

Nice job on trying to wrangle this thing. Don't get discouraged.

Oh not discouraged at all. My end goal isn't a comp packet that the entire community embraces, I think that's pretty much impossible. Its to give our local campaigns a structure.

All of those items you discussed are part of the initial formula on pointing things. The design notes on the first page explain the direction and goal.

Also our comp includes cap on summoning.

* summoned units come in at their min size
* summoned units give up their points values if killed
* summoners can summon at a max one unit per their point cost (and our system has a sliding scale of 1-5)

As summoned units give up points, and we have point based scenarios we are using, there is a downside to summoning, and the summoning doesn't get too out of control with the caps.