The Doom of Malantai

[HsojVvad]

Ok, I am a newb here. Please explain a few things to me. If the units are not on the table top, how can those units inside a vechicle fire their weapons then? How can a phychic hood be used if they are not on the table? So next time I play a game, I tell my opponent who hides his scared SM inside a tank that he can't fire his weapons or use his Phychic hood because the models are not on the table.

Also if the units are not on the table, how the hell do they ever get out of the tank or vechicle? If they supossebly start on the players side at the begining of the game, and the tank moves onto my side on turn 2 or 3, how do they get out? If they were never on the board, then they could have never travelled over from his side of the board to mine.

I don't get this, they were never on the board thing people are talking about. Please bear with me, I am still new to the rules.

[Ferro]

HsojVvad, and others: the argument goes like this--
1) In two places in the rulebook (embarking p66 and embarking in buildings p79) it tells us that when a unit embarks it is removed from the table.
2) Once removed from the table, a unit is not a valid target for any externally generated game mechanic, be it shooting, abilities, effects, special rules, whatever.
3) However, the embarked unit is able to initiate actions of its own by virtue of specific rules in the RB, FAQ and codecii. Such as: shooting, disembarking, capturing objectives, issuing orders, using any psychic power, etc.

The embarked unit can suffer consequences of its own actions, such as Gets Hot and Perils of the Warp, but in general it is not possible for anything to 'get in' from the outside. If this argument is correct, Shadows of the Warp, Runic Weapons, and Psychic Hoods (and any other such 'area of effect' ability) are not able to interact with an embarked unit.

This argument rests on point number 2 above, and the unsupported assumption that if models are 'set aside' the unit becomes untouchable.

It's my argument that #2 above is a relic of a previous rule-set, and is not supported by anything in the 5th ed rules. Quite the contrary, a clean reading of the rulebook makes it plain that in all respects an embarked unit is considered to be in the transport, on the table, still in play. They gain certain protections by virtue of being embarked (cannot be shot or assaulted/or at least no LOS to them--depending on which version of this defense you endorse), but these protections do not extend to the infinite and cover any-and-everything.

There. That is the gist of this 18 page thread. got it?

[N.I.B.]

It's kinda ridiculous to hit guys in transports for the points cost of that character.

Jaws of the World Wolf is kinda ridiculous, killing expensive MC's for that meager a cost and effort. And you can have several JotWW in the same army! Surely it can't be legal?

> Spirit Leech, Oh noes, Transport/Tankhammer might get a slight nerf by a single unit in a single army that will be killed after the first turn it drops! What to do, what to do!!??

The way I want to see Spirit Leech faqed is to allow it to affect embarked units but state that they wont have to take morale tests for 25% casualties. Can't see the Doom being taken to a tournament otherwise (if it can't affect embarked units).

I can't see why you should get Cover Saves from a non-corporeal soul-sucking area effect either. It affects the area in front of the shelter you're using. It affects the area behind the shelter. It's not shooting. It doesn't require LOS. For the same reason I don't see some inches of vehicle hull saving you from Shadow in the Warp. If that would be the case, wouldn't you be even safer in a building with even thicker walls?

[Nabterayl]

I can't see why you should get Cover Saves from a non-corporeal soul-sucking area effect either. It affects the area in front of the shelter you're using. It affects the area behind the shelter. It's not shooting. It doesn't require LOS. For the same reason I don't see some inches of vehicle hull saving you from Shadow in the Warp. If that would be the case, wouldn't you be even safer in a building with even thicker walls?

No reason a human being should be able to dodge a 10" Destroyer weapon, either, but imperial assassins can do it. I'm all for common sense house rules, but without one, the save rules are the save rules.

EDIT: I can't tell if your point is that Spirit Leech should ignore cover saves, or that units aren't entitled to a cover save from being in cover on the grounds that Spirit Leech isn't a shooting attack and thus the Doom is not a "firer." The latter seems perfectly reasonable to me, but there are ways to get a cover save that have nothing to do with being in cover, and I don't see why, from a RAW standpoint, Spirit Leech would ignore those saves.

[BuFFo]

Models always get a save in this game when they suffer wounds.

It takes a special rule to get rid of it.

The Doom's Aura only removes the 'Armor Save', but you are sill left with IS and CS.

[david5th]

Just like to add that while i was on the phone to GW about an order that had not arrived despite upgraded p&p ( thats another thing entirely ) and i thought i would ask the question whether spirit leech affected embarked units. The response was...

" It cannot affect them as they are no longer on the table. This is the same as other psychic attacks. "

Those were his words not mine so DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER PLEASE!

[j78]

Those were his words not mine so DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER PLEASE!

i dunno, can i target you if you only exist to me on the internet? will you get a cover save? what about if i think really hard, will that get you?

[DarkLink]

Just like to add that while i was on the phone to GW about an order that had not arrived despite upgraded p&p ( thats another thing entirely ) and i thought i would ask the question whether spirit leech affected embarked units. The response was...

" It cannot affect them as they are no longer on the table. This is the same as other psychic attacks. "

Interesting, but personally what I expected. Some people may not buy it, since it's only an answer over a phone, but I bet this'll be what they put in their eventual errata/faq.

[Nabterayl]

what about if i think really hard, will that get you?

That depends on whether or not you're within 6" of the internet.

[gcsmith]

The person obv doesnt understand its not a psychic power lol