IG and dealing with AV14

[mercer]

But demolishers are an ordance weapon, so you get 2d6 take the highest!

In my standard IG I generally have 1 LC hw squad, a demolisher, a bassie and assorted special weapons to all deal with av14. Remember you don't have to kill the high armour the first turn, just prevent it from firing the next round.

Yes, so you still need 5+ to penetrate, yes? You roll 2D6 at least one of those has got to be a 5 or 6 to score a penetrating hit. So my point still stands.

And lascannons don't deal with armour 14, either and no does a basilisk. Both need a 6+ to penetrate - not good!

[Lord Azaghul]

Yes, so you still need 5+ to penetrate, yes? You roll 2D6 at least one of those has got to be a 5 or 6 to score a penetrating hit. So my point still stands.

And lascannons don't deal with armour 14, either and no does a basilisk. Both need a 6+ to penetrate - not good!

All I'm saying is that needing a single 5 or 6 with 2 chances is a greatly improved odd then needing a 5 or 6 on a single d6.
Keep in mind, you don't need to kill the av 14, just stop it from shooting, so a 'glace' is just fine.

[phoenix01]

I don't know for sure as I don't play Guard, but what about a squadron of three Devil Dogs? They are fast tanks and have that melta cannon, and taking them in a squadron might improve the chance that one or more might get the chance to pop an AV14 tank.

[Lord Azaghul]

Thats not terribly cost effective though,for a squad of 3 you're looking at about 360-390 in points to kill a landraider or an IG tank. Now 2 might be a bit more a mit more reasonable. But the 'fast' slot is a very contested one in the 'dex, and people don't generally care to squadron tanks!

[Folkert0]

hell hound or bane wolf with hull multi-melta, it's a fast vehicle so it can meet the raider halfway the board and has a 24" threat bubble, after melting the tank, go and throw some templates around just for added kicks

you probably should take them in pairs btw...

just my $0.02

cheers,

Folkert

[fuzzbuket]

guard with a problem with AV 14

sorry but my eldar and pure grey knights cant hear you.

seriously, melta tanks, melta-vets, melta sponsons, hull mounted meltas,blobs with meltas. too many choices for you to kill it with


-fuzz ( try killing a monolith with eldar and youll see my pain, or CC with meltabombs for my GK)

[Judge]

AV 14 isn't overly complicated. Rather than ask for guesswork, why not figure it out for yourself?

Land Raider ~250 points.
36 LC shots on average to kill for IG. (1/2 hit, 1/6 penetrate, 1/3 kill)
8.1 Demolisher shots to kill. (2/3 hit, 1/3 penetrate, 5/9 kill)

Lascannon HWTs = 420 points to kill within 3 rounds (~33% chance / Round)
LR Demolishers = 495 points to kill within 3 rounds (~40% chance / Round)

Figure five times the odds for lesser effects from Lascannons, and just over the same odds (as to kill) from Demolishers.

On the flip side, both twin-linked Lascannon side sponsons on the Land Raider together will take ~5 rounds to kill a 14 armor tank. Two would kill 14 front armor at about the same rate as 3 Lemun Russ Demolishers. You'd think the whole thing's pretty well balanced once you factor in the twin-linked assault cannon on the Land Raider and assault capability. Until you factor in Space Tyranids.

On the flip side, a 6 man squad of generic Terminators costs ~250 points (I know there's a lot of room for variance there), and they take only ~18 IG Lascannon shots to kill, or 2.55 Demolisher shots (little more if they're spread out, but with less variance), so if you have the option (which you will sometimes), shoot them instead.

At a casual glance, I'd say the Manticore is your best bet, but factoring in the 5th edition armour buff, you might very well consider not shooting the tanks at all until softer targets disappeared.

[Lord Azaghul]

, but factoring in the 5th edition armour buff, you might very well consider not shooting the tanks at all until softer targets disappeared.

Ding, Ding Ding! We have a winner.

when i play my IG and a LR is on the table, I often ignore it for a first 2 turns. That ends up being alot of defensive points, just sitting on the table, while my entire army can unload on the rest of the MEQ army , then I bring the heavy fire power to bear against the LR!

[Melissia]

If it gets too bothersome, I just pop the LR with a meltagun.

Emperor knows that they're cheap enough in a Guard army.

[Shadoq]

All,
Thanks for the comments.
My current build list to play test this weekend includes:

Pask in a Vanq w/hull las. I love Vanq tank models and ideas. I cry a little inside that the Destroyer Tank Hunter isn't a codex option. I love that thing.

Medusa w/Bastion Breacher

Demolisher w/hull las

Plus the aforementioned 2X sqds of melta vets

Tempted to give the devil dog a try but I am not a fan of squadroning vehicles.