Daemonhunter 'ard Boyz list

[DarkLink]

Codex WH and DH have rules for allying units around. They're kinda complicated, but 'ard boyz has a good summary of what you're allowed to do in their packet.


As for the Land Raiders, since 5th ed came out I've more or less exclusively played Grey knights, and I've always spent between 25-50% of my points on Land Raiders. It's rarely been a problem.

In fact, it's more of a problem to spend fewer points on Land Raiders, I've found. In games with only one (or at this points level two) land raiders, and relatively little other support, they die easily and accomplish little. Taking 3, however, is very effective in such a high points game.

Plus, GKs need Land Raiders. As in, they cannot play competitively without Land Raider spam. They simply don't work competitively if you don't take lots of Land Raiders. This is, after all, the codex that's been at the very bottom of the pile since long before Necrons got nerfed when 5th came out.

Very rarely, there is an occasional game where the opponent just gets ridiculously lucky and blows up a bunch of Land Raiders in a row. But at this points level, I have enough other stuff where that can happen and I still have a chance of winning.

[Tynskel]

I completely agree.

Grey Knights do not have any transports other than land raiders. Now compound the situation that they don't have access to weapons like Lascannons except for Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders-- both of which are Hv Support options.

Rhinos for Inquisitorial Troopers do not count: The Grey Knights cannot start in them, and trying to fudge around can back-fire. It is easier to mount them in the Vehicles of mass destruction: The Land Raider.

The nice thing is that Grey Knight Land Raiders get the benefits of the Grey Knight codex (if you choose to buy the upgrades) and the benefits of the current Space Marine Land Raider Rules.

If you deep strike Grey Knights, you lose the ability to claim. Also, you have to buy the teleport homers to ensure their arrival safely. Next, the deep striking units do not have weapons that can deal with Transports/Tanks the turn they arrive. The guys that carry the Teleport Homers are either the Storm Troopers, which will die horribly really quickly-- or more Grey Knights--- how did the Grey Knights get up so the others can teleport in? Probably in a Land Raider--- at which point, why not buy a land raider, and now you have a claiming squad again...

Grey Knight Dreadnoughts also suffer from no delivery mechanism. They could use drop pods (or the Stormraven!). If you are going to take expensive dreadnoughts that have anti-tank weapons, you might as well take the transport that delivers a hammer blow quickly, and can deal with anti-tank.


Overall, I think DarkLink has the right idea. A nice mix of units. An Armored Spearhead with 10 Terminators and 10 Veteran Marines. Sisters to back up with a bolter line. A 'scout squad' Storm Troopers to harass and claim an ignored objective. And, finally, an annoying assault squad that will tarpit things like Thunder Hammer Terminators, and escape things that you want to shoot (like Genestealers) with the best form of Hit n' Run.

There's just enough Faith Points to make the Sisters useful. There's enough Grey Knights to hammer blow, and there's enough variety of anti-tank to take care of armor.

Wielding the army will be difficult, but it's can work.

[Pil]

Nice post guys this thread has been very helpful. I think I personally do well against Land Raiders because of lance weapons and so many units that get 2d6 to pen, and the Land Raiders don't have the fire power to do much against T6 W6 creatures. Anyways thanks again for all the insight I will put it to good use.

[Tynskel]

There are some issues. Bright Lances are nice, but it is the melta that is scary.

The Land Raider will put some wounds out on T6 6W creatures.
However, Grey Knight Terminators are WS5 and have Str6 Power Weapons-- Plus the both of his Grey Knight Heros (at Initiative 5) have Nemesis Force Weapons- which flat out remove the model (strict codex reading in 'Ard Boyz) after the psychic test. Those are Str6 as well.


As a well experienced Tyranid Player, I have found that Grey Knights can handle the big beasties quite well--- its the swarms that they have problems with.

On that note, I do think you should probably stick an incinerator in each Grey Knight Squad. Just 3-- that's 3 Super Hv Flamers.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I've been debating about where to get the points for a few incinerators. I'll probably put two in the GK squad, as Terminators don't really need them too much, I've found. We don't have many 'nidz players locally, so all my anti-horde experience comes from facing Orks, and GKs can deal with orks pretty well on the charge, even if you don't take Incinerators.

Or I might just find the points to put an incinerator in each squad.

And on a side note, losing Land Raiders is a common thing with this type of list, that you just have to deal with. Land Raiders provide their worth by blowing up transports at the beginning of the game, then delivering GKs into assault. If they do that, they've done their job. If they happen to survive long enough to, say, contest an enemy objective, that's just a bonus.

[Tynskel]

Ya know, I was thinking-

You could put three incinerators into the Grey Knights squad. That's the same price as putting 2 into a Terminator squad. (or do 2 in the Grey Knights and one in a Terminator squad- personally, I don't like the Storm Shield on the Grey Knight Grand Master- you might have had better experience than me, but I think it would be better to give the squad an incinerator, or give the GM an Icon of the Just).

[DarkLink]

I keep the GM in the Terminator squad because they follow the old retinue rules. If I split the GM off and took a separate Terminator squad, I'd lose that protection. Though in smaller games when I don't have a retinue, I have done the 3 Incinerator combo before.

As to the Storm Shield, it's a cheap 4+ save for the GM. It might only work against one opponent per round, but most of the time the biggest threat to a GM is, for example, that one guy with a Power Fist. So most of the time getting a 4+ save against one opponent is good enough.

Plus, since a DH Storm Shield "counts as a single handed weapon", and Nemesis Force Weapons are also single handed weapons with no special restrictions as with Power Fists and the like, you get +1 A.

[Tynskel]

Oh, I didn't mean get rid of the retinue, he needs the retinue to survive! I was just talking about giving him an incinerator.

Hah- I never noticed that the Storm Shield was a single handed weapon! What a funny way of getting +1 A! With that, I agree- don't get rid of the Storm Shield!

Funny, I know some people who buy their Grand Masters 'Artificer Armor' so they can get the 2 CC weapons from the Storm Bolter and Nemesis Force Weapon (and to chase squads down), but they have to buy an 'Icon of the Just' to get an Invulnerable Save (although, buying the Icon of the Just is purchased a lot of the time, anyhow). The Storm Shield isn't a bad way to do it.

Have you thought about giving the GM 'Hammerhand' Psychic power? I have seen people use that as an instant 'oh crap- Dreadnought' ability. Not to mention, busts open tanks in CC.

[DarkLink]

Oh, I didn't mean get rid of the retinue, he needs the retinue to survive! I was just talking about giving him an incinerator.

Oh, Terminator squads only get one incinerator, so you could only get two total, with one on the GM. I've found that I very rarely have a potent enough target that they can survive both a couple of incinerators and a charge from the GKTs, though, so I rarely take incinerators on GKTs.

Hah- I never noticed that the Storm Shield was a single handed weapon! What a funny way of getting +1 A! With that, I agree- don't get rid of the Storm Shield!

Funny, I know some people who buy their Grand Masters 'Artificer Armor' so they can get the 2 CC weapons from the Storm Bolter and Nemesis Force Weapon (and to chase squads down), but they have to buy an 'Icon of the Just' to get an Invulnerable Save (although, buying the Icon of the Just is purchased a lot of the time, anyhow). The Storm Shield isn't a bad way to do it.

Yeah, one of those funny little quirks of an old codex. If it weren't for how cool a 3+ invuln is, and how much the current codex lacks in other areas, I actually wouldn't want an update because we have some old rules like this we get to abuse (old force weapons, unlimited range psychic hoods, etc).

Incidentally, I don't think AA is a legal upgrade for a GM. It doesn't have a * next to it, meaning it can't be taken by models in Terminator armor. I think.

Have you thought about giving the GM 'Hammerhand' Psychic power? I have seen people use that as an instant 'oh crap- Dreadnought' ability. Not to mention, busts open tanks in CC.

I have, but don't think I have the points for such a situational ability. Stern has it built in, an I put a THSS in each squad to (hopefully) deal with walkers.

[Tynskel]

hmmm...

I know the * is for Terminator Armor, but you are technically exchanging Terminator Armor for the Artificer Armor--- like in 3rd/4th edition you upgraded to Terminator Armor, you don't wear both the Power Armor and the Terminator Armor, even though you technically never got rid of the Power Armor.

The newer codexes are much clearer about those silly things.

Hey, if Stern has it, you'll probably be fine-- I assume that those two squads will be buddies and help each other out anyhow.