Why are 40k players hatings on Paintings scores?

[addamsfamily36]

You must be thinking of a different blog thing than me. The whole point of the one that I saw was that he did a statistical analysis and found that painting score did, in fact, prevent the top players from winning.

No worries, just a slight cross over of similar posts easy mistake. Yeh im totally with you on tournaments like that, where the balance over powers actual games won. but as a gamer who also enjoys painting crafting etc, i do like to see a standard, even if its just two colors or what have you on the table. whether or not you get marks for it they still shouldn't effect overall result. just maybe have a to enter have 3 colours rule or something along those lines which i think is fair, unless its a tournament specifically engineered for people who don't like painting, then its up to them.

[addamsfamily36]

Whoa man, a little harsh there don't you think? 40k isn't about just painted armies; the painting is only one aspect. That's like saying the Olympics are about running - yeah it's one part of it, but not the central focus.

Way I see it, and this is just an opinion, 40k as a whole is a sum of:

1. Gaming
2. Collecting
3. Painting/Converting
4. Lore
5. Social Interaction

Sure, some don't enjoy the painting; hell it can be a downright pain in the *** sometimes. But that doesn't mean the entire hobby is not for them.

Yeh, as much as i agreed with thebitzbarn earlier, i have to say that the hobby is more than one soul thing. saying the hobby is just about painted armies is narrow minded. as is saying its just about gaming. for each individual there is a different aspect of the hobby that they enjoy, some enjoy all aspects, but it has to be acknowledged that the hobby consists of more than one element, even if you dislike other areas of the hobby.

[Melissia]

This hobby is about painted armies

No. The hobby is about this army of giant douchebags in powered armor running about killing greenskinned mushroom men, while space elves with shuriken-throwing guns run about being emo about their lost race, and the great masses of humanity point flashlights at everyone and yell "boo" to distract from their tanks firing far deadlier ordnance at the "I'm angry at my dad" douchebags and six-breasted daemons out of hell itself. The terminator wannabe army of zombie skeletal robots kills everyone they see, a BDSM variant of space elves survive basically by living in a constant orgy of pain and blood, and blue-skinned space cow / space bird communists are trying to preach peace and cooperation but then get attacked by a bunch of bugs with guns along with everyone else.

That is 40k, in a sarcastic nutshell. What you define as the hobby is not the same as what anyone else does. The background, the lore, the fluff, however you refer to it-- that's how I define 40k. Without the background, the miniatures are mediocre piles of plastic/metal/resin. Without the background, the rules are nothing more than a mediocre collection of numbers, statements, and random dice rolling which aren't even really all that great. Without the background, 40k is nothing. That's all that matters to me, for 40k. My armies are merely an extension of this, a show of support and love for my three favorite factions, and the battles I participate in are likewise an extension of this, giving more and more battles and history to the characters I create.

Painting is a monotonous chore, something which I do not enjoy, and something I only marginally consider part of the hobby-- indeed, I would go so far as to say that painting miniatures is a completely separate hobby from the one I participate in.

[The other guy]

Where as for me, Painting takes priority. GW make some beautiful models and i love trying to bring the best out of them with my paints. And some of GW best models are for 40k

Then comes the social aspect. I really enjoy sitting in my local GW store and painting up some minis while chatting to the others in the store. It's social, it's interactive and a great way to spend an afternoon.

Then for me comes the games. I like winning more than losing, but all-in-all, I can take or leave the gaming. It's a good way of putting my painted minis in a different light.

Finally comes the fluff. I tried to read the black library books but found the writing to be sub-par (in my view only). I don't really enjoy the 40k universe fluffwise.

Melissa, please understand that there are many different aspects to the hobby. We don't all value fluff over painting. I can respect your position as very gaming-orientated. Can you respect mine as a person who views painting far more important that the provided storyline?

[Melissia]

[snip]

Don't give me that BS. Read my post first, in its entirety instead of piecemeal.

Namely, this part:

What you define as the hobby is not the same as what anyone else does. The background, the lore, the fluff, however you refer to it-- that's how I define 40k.

This should make it obvious that I'm not disparaging anyone who believes painting is the most important aspect, merely stating that I disagree. That you assume I somehow disrespect your opinion is wrong-- I am apathetic to your opinion (meaning, I don't really care), rather, I am responding to someone idiotically saying that people who aren't into the painting section of the hobby should leave the hobby.

Something which, if you had actually read of my posts, you should note that I have never said nor said anything similar to. Erroneously claim that my apathy over your opinions is disrespectful if you absolutely must, but at the very least I haven't just crudely told you "like this aspect of the hobby or get out".

[The other guy]

Don't give me that BS. Read my post first, in its entirety instead of piecemeal.

Namely, this part:

This should make it obvious that I'm not disparaging anyone who believes painting is the most important aspect, merely stating that I disagree. That you assume I somehow disrespect your opinion is wrong-- I am apathetic to your opinion (meaning, I don't really care), rather, I am responding to someone idiotically saying that people who aren't into the painting section of the hobby should leave the hobby.

And I am responding to someone who has stated that...

The hobby is about this army of giant douchebags in powered armor running about killing greenskinned mushroom men, while space elves with shuriken-throwing guns run about being emo about their lost race, and the great masses of humanity point flashlights at everyone and yell "boo" to distract from their tanks firing far deadlier ordnance at the "I'm angry at my dad" douchebags and six-breasted daemons out of hell itself. The terminator wannabe army of zombie skeletal robots kills everyone they see, a BDSM variant of space elves survive basically by living in a constant orgy of pain and blood, and blue-skinned space cow / space bird communists are trying to preach peace and cooperation but then get attacked by a bunch of bugs with guns along with everyone else.

That is 40k, in a sarcastic nutshell. What you define as the hobby is not the same as what anyone else does. The background, the lore, the fluff, however you refer to it-- that's how I define 40k. Without the background, the miniatures are mediocre piles of plastic/metal/resin. Without the background, the rules are nothing more than a mediocre collection of numbers, statements, and random dice rolling which aren't even really all that great. Without the background, 40k is nothing. That's all that matters to me, for 40k.

I want to highlight the bits in red. Those are the bits im responding to.

Those are definitive statements. You are stating them as fact, not your opinion. THAT is why i asked you to respect my opinion, and to understand that you opinion is not fact.

[Shavnir]

I have been to well over 25 Tournies, form small shop events to 2 day ones. I have been to events all over the Southeast US.

When I ran them we did not focus on painting over who knows how to play if you painted your armies at all then you generally got 14 out of the 20 points for Painting. This system does not award a overall win to someone who paid for an army.

You have obviously never been to an event where people were not all jerks and where painted armies are the exception. Painting is part of the hobby. I am sorry to say that if you do not paint them you should not win regardless how many games you won. Many people feel this way and I am not trying to start a flame war but this really only exist in the 40K circuit fantasy players seems to not be worried as much about this. I think this is due to Fantasy players are little more mature. just my opinion

I've been playing miniatures games for about 6 years now and have played in dozens of tournies in at least 4 states, including everything from 8 people showing up at the store to top-8ing in a 100+ person national event. I would say perhaps a third, maybe only a quarter of these events were for Warhammer or 40k.

I would also like to say that yes, I have been to a tournament that required painting and people weren't all jerks.

It was only in the Warhammer / 40k events that painting played any relevant part in the final scoring of the tournament, and its only been in those tournaments (specifically ones with army comp, painting and sportsmanship scores) that I've seen people I wouldn't play after the tournament.

To repeat : Despite having played in tournaments almost nonstop for 7 years the only times I have never had a particularly horrid opponent in tournaments where there are no sportsmanship scores.

I am sorry to say but I'm afraid its you and people like you. You are what's wrong with warhammer as a hobby.

PS : I've been to Fantasy tournaments where the judge actively made up rulings to help his friends win and had the whiniest Chaos Daemons player about my "overpowered lizardmen." There's plenty of douche's in both games.

[Bean]

Not that I disagree with you, in principle, Shav, but I have to say that I've played against people in Warmachine tournaments who I basically never want to play against again.

Fantasy and 40k have no monopoly on douchery.

[Melissia]

[snip]

Respond to the entire post, rather than a section of it. Strawman arguments piss me off because they are balls to the wall f***ing RETARDED.

My posts are made to fit together in their entirety. The context of a statement depends on the statements before and afterwards. Indeed, even between multiple posts, the context of each post is dependent on the previous and subsequent posts, because of the nature of conversations on a forum. Blatantly ignoring large swaths of a post is, at best, idiotic, and at worst trolling. Either way, if you're suggesting you flat out refuse to read the entire post and take statements in context, then I'll just add you to my ignore list (even Buffo isn't that obnoxious, and he's the only one on there).

[Shavnir]

Not that I disagree with you, in principle, Shav, but I have to say that I've played against people in Warmachine tournaments who I basically never want to play against again.

Fantasy and 40k have no monopoly on douchery.

To be fair Bean you have a history of bringing out the worst in people . But seriously my point was more sportsmanship scores don't really garuntee good sportsmanship but instead promotes vindication against it.