Why are 40k players hatings on Paintings scores?

[DarkLink]

Melissa, please understand that there are many different aspects to the hobby. We don't all value fluff over painting. I can respect your position as very gaming-orientated. Can you respect mine as a person who views painting far more important that the provided storyline?

This is her whole point. This is my whole point. This is the whole point of what a lot of people are trying to say on this thread.

Some people just don't care about certain aspects of the hobby. And there is absolutely no reason why they should have to take flak from others. Other people have absolutely no right whatsoever to dictate your interests.

Do not judge someone simply because that aspect, for them, is painting.

[Colonel Pryde]

If I were a professional athlete, and my team won every game in the World Series, only for another team to get the trophy because their uniforms were nicer than ours, I'd be angry. This is the exact same thing here.

A great analogy.

In my point of view, we pay a (Im sorry) a ****load of money on this particular game. Therefore, we should have the right to specialize and enjoy the game how we like it. I'd personally be pissed if I won all of my games but he had better painting skills. I still can't understand the original poster on how he accepts that he was 2nd place even though he performed better. They should really have separate categories for winning in tourneys. Have a separate paint contest where people can enter their best painted model. The winner wins a prize. But you cannot PENALIZE someone who excels in his matches.

Eveyone has their stengths and weaknesses, whether it be painting, gaming, or being good sports. But you cannot PENALIZE someone for being weaker in something. It just isn't right. No one's perfect.

Nobody was trashing other sports scores just to get ahead.

Oh yeah, how would you know if others were not trashing other's scores? I would hope that these are confidential no?

[Aldramelech]

To you.

Painting is nothing more than an annoying little bother, to me.

Only because your crap at it!

(He he, runs away quickly)

[Commissar Lewis]

Respond to the entire post, rather than a section of it. Strawman arguments piss me off because they are balls to the wall f***ing RETARDED.

Heehee, this part made me laugh. Ah, Melissia you do come up with some great gems. I'm going to have to use "balls to the walls ****ing retarded" at some later occasion.

Aside from that, I have nothing really to add aside from the fact that painting scores shouldn't affect gaming scores, etc.

[MajorSoB]

I was reminded why I feel so strongly that painting is part of the hobby last tuesday. Allow me to explain:

I was relaxing at my local gaming store waiting for a friend to show up and drop off some models to me. Tuesday nights are 40K nights and open gaming. I did not have alot of time before work ( I was called in to start early ), so I opted not to start a game instead I was relaxing talking with some friends. A younger player (17 -19) asked me if I had a game. I responded no but I could play a quick game if he was OK with me leaving for work. We set the board up, I got out my army. I had my chaos nurgle list. My army is painted and more important, it is WYSIWIG. My opponent started unpacking his army. He was playing Nids. Out came a Hive Tyrant, an older model, followed by some half assembled gene stealers, a cari ( used as a tervigon), some armless gaunts, warriors and so on. Random paint decorated a few models, none of which were complete. We started playing. Somewhere into turn 2, I had my DP close enough to charge his Tyrant. I charged, but the Tyrant became a Swarmlord ( why shouldnt it)! In combat the arms magically morphed into twin boneswords. Basically the game progressed in like fashion from there, hopefully you can understand the point I am getting at. While I enjoyed the game somewhat, it also frustrated me. Here is my thinking.

I dont begrudge anyone who is starting this hobby and is on a shoestring budget. I have seen it before and have gladly donated models to help out beginning players. What I dont like is that same player who several years down to road is still stuck carrying around the same crappy unassembled and unpainted army. You know this is just a game but when playing at least have some respect for your opponent. Put your best foot forward. I dont think its too much trouble for someone to show up with an assembled army, with each unit properly represented and equipped as you are playing them. If painting isnt your thing, bare miminum effort should be assembled and primed. Now before you accuse me of being elitist, etc, remember I played this guy who didnt have a game. I had fun but it wasn't as fun as it could have been. When we play next time I want to see more. I want to see an effort towards assembling the army and making it WYSIWIG. After that start painting but at least make an effort. I know its easy to come up with excuse after excuse as to why you cant assemble, paint, and so on, but remember you chose a hobby where assembling and painting is an element of it. If that isnt what you like, then play chess, Heroclix, or Magic, no assembly and no painting needed. I believe this is one reason why many tournaments the hobby aspect of our game. 40K and fantasy do require assembly and painting.

[Aldramelech]

I was reminded why I feel so strongly that painting is part of the hobby last tuesday. Allow me to explain:

I was relaxing at my local gaming store waiting for a friend to show up and drop off some models to me. Tuesday nights are 40K nights and open gaming. I did not have alot of time before work ( I was called in to start early ), so I opted not to start a game instead I was relaxing talking with some friends. A younger player (17 -19) asked me if I had a game. I responded no but I could play a quick game if he was OK with me leaving for work. We set the board up, I got out my army. I had my chaos nurgle list. My army is painted and more important, it is WYSIWIG. My opponent started unpacking his army. He was playing Nids. Out came a Hive Tyrant, an older model, followed by some half assembled gene stealers, a cari ( used as a tervigon), some armless gaunts, warriors and so on. Random paint decorated a few models, none of which were complete. We started playing. Somewhere into turn 2, I had my DP close enough to charge his Tyrant. I charged, but the Tyrant became a Swarmlord ( why shouldnt it)! In combat the arms magically morphed into twin boneswords. Basically the game progressed in like fashion from there, hopefully you can understand the point I am getting at. While I enjoyed the game somewhat, it also frustrated me. Here is my thinking.

I don't begrudge anyone who is starting this hobby and is on a shoestring budget. I have seen it before and have gladly donated models to help out beginning players. What I dont like is that same player who several years down to road is still stuck carrying around the same crappy unassembled and unpainted army. You know this is just a game but when playing at least have some respect for your opponent. Put your best foot forward. I dont think its too much trouble for someone to show up with an assembled army, with each unit properly represented and equipped as you are playing them. If painting isnt your thing, bare miminum effort should be assembled and primed. Now before you accuse me of being elitist, etc, remember I played this guy who didnt have a game. I had fun but it wasn't as fun as it could have been. When we play next time I want to see more. I want to see an effort towards assembling the army and making it WYSIWIG. After that start painting but at least make an effort. I know its easy to come up with excuse after excuse as to why you cant assemble, paint, and so on, but remember you chose a hobby where assembling and painting is an element of it. If that isnt what you like, then play chess, Heroclix, or Magic, no assembly and no painting needed. I believe this is one reason why many tournaments the hobby aspect of our game. 40K and fantasy do require assembly and painting.

Yep, I'm with you there. But......

Most Tournaments have a requirement that you turn up with a painted army to be able to enter.

Excellent, as it should be. As long as the organizers requirements are met, no problem.

But to then judge who won by including the standard of that painting? Not so excellent.

Now lets bare in mind that I'm a painter and I do consider it to be at least as important as any other aspect, and I will not play against unpainted figures, never, under any circumstances.

I still believe that painting scores have no place in tournaments. Some people, no matter how hard they try, regardless of how much effort they put in, are just no good at it. Painting cannot be completely learned, you have to have some natural talent in the first place.

Should these people be penalized at tournaments for this lack of natural talent? I don't believe they should.

Should there be a reward for putting in effort and practice and developing your natural talent? Yes, but in a separate painting category.

[Shavnir]

I had fun but it wasn't as fun as it could have been. When we play next time I want to see more. I want to see an effort towards assembling the army and making it WYSIWIG. After that start painting but at least make an effort. I know its easy to come up with excuse after excuse as to why you cant assemble, paint, and so on, but remember you chose a hobby where assembling and painting is an element of it. If that isnt what you like, then play chess, Heroclix, or Magic, no assembly and no painting needed. I believe this is one reason why many tournaments the hobby aspect of our game. 40K and fantasy do require assembly and painting.

I chose a hobby where I move little plastic or metal mans around a board and argue about rules personally. Apparently I also chose a hobby full of holier-than-thou people based on their tolerance of something I find to be completely and utterly unfun, painting.

Lets say you show up and part of my enjoyment of the hobby is rules arguments. I can still have a good game without a rules argument but one where the opponent sat down and really learns all the nooks and crannies of the rules and their codex and comes up with good points (especially when its something I didn't know before!) increases my enjoyment of the game. I am making an assertion that it is more a part of the hobby for me than painting. Is it fair for me to have a tournament where you get to judge the opponent on how well he argued his case for various rulings? Should I tell you guys to go to games with cleaner rules if you don't enjoy rules arguments?

[DarkLink]

I was reminded why I feel so strongly that painting is part of the hobby last tuesday. Allow me to explain:

And I'm strongly reminded about how other people have absolutely no right to tell me what parts of my hobby I should be enjoying.

What you ran into here was not an issue that somehow magically proves that we all must start painting everything, and enjoy it. What you ran into was someone who was bending the rules (at best).

The rules about WYSIWYG require a certain minimum of modeling activity. If you choose (and remember, you and you alone get to choose who you play) to play someone who is violating those rules, you might run into trouble.

But beyond that minimum degree of modeling required by the rules...

[Colonel Pryde]

If painting isnt your thing, bare miminum effort should be assembled and primed.

I ran into this a few times. I entered assault with 5 plastic assault marines to find out that one of them actually was captain shrike. I have not much of a problem with those who do not have WYSIWYG, but they should at least show you their armylist and explain their proxies. Even a polite reminder "remmember, that's a swarmlord" or "are you sure? that's a demon prnce" and so on. Even I was once a proxyer, especially when I first started off. But over time, you accumilate enough (thousands) of bits and this no longer becomes an excuse.

I remmember those wizkids games. Those mechwarrior "clicktec" tourneys every week. As bad as the rules were, the simplicity and timeliness was the beauty of the game. But evetually, you get tired of ugly, poor painted and deformed miniatures! I remmeber the day I first saw a necron monolith at my local hobby store... That's when I started 40k... A little off topic.

[scadugenga]

Proxy issues are a whole 'nother ball of wax than just painting...