Army Builder: Yes or no?

[Eyespy]

Yes, and? Those are being patched. There is no such thing as a complex program which has no problems.

But Army Builder is still typically more accurate than people attempting to write their own lists.

Your point that patches that break previously working data is better than people who can't do arithmetic is technically correct, but hardly complimentary.

[Melissia]

And your little attitude isn't exactly complimentary to your attempts to make a point, either. Regardless, the fact remains that the program is useful. I never claimed anyone should rely entirely upon it. Having the codex in front of you, and understanding it, is one of the most important aspects of actually being able to play the army. This includes the points costs and army list. Army Builder is merely a tool to assist you in making a list. It is not a replacement for actually knowing the army.

[MaxKool]

i tried the trial and though it was helpful, i felt it wern't worth the 30£ when Microsoft Word and the calculator were doing just fine for me. plus it feels to me it's an illegal program in the same respect Pirate bay was with torrent downloading, the program may not be illegal itself but the way it is used (I.E having the army list and a brief summery of what everything in the book does on a file format to work on it) is.

Feels "illegal"... what the hell does that mean, either it is or it isnt. GW being the heavy handed *******s they are (C&D Party anyone?) Know all about it and as long as it keeps the page referances and dosnt list all the info GW is fine with it. its nothing like downloading a codex on BT.

there is no way to play an army properly with just AB... Sure I guess you could try and collect a list of things missing, but seriousy thats alot of work to save $30 ona codex...

AB=Sliced bread(when its correct... wich is MOST of the time)

[Loken]

I always use Army builder. I have all my codexes and know them well. But if you are putting an Apoc army list together, it really is essential.

Simple fact is that AB makes less mistakes than people using pen and paper. I am sure YOU are good at it, but running bid games I find most people are not.

Big official games we require either AB, spreadsheet or at least a good hand written one. And I let everyone use my AB on my laptop f they need it.

[BuFFo]

AB has very few mistakes. For every one mistake AB has, my opponent's hand written lists have 5.

Been using it since around 2005, and still loving it.

[RebelGrot]

Army Builder is merely a tool to assist you in making a list. It is not a replacement for actually knowing the army.

Well said, think this is a point well worth making. The reason I initially asked was to see if it's a system that will help me fiddle about my lists and to tweak elements after play tests. I don't want a codex replacement and I still want to 'learn my army' like usual. AB is just going to help me do it while I have 5mins free here or there, instead of it being a case of sitting down and cracking out a codex, pen, paper, calculator, spare pen, beer...

As for the comparisons to torrent sites and the legalities of it all I really think they're quite separate - no one downloads or streams an album or film etc that they already have, where as I imagine the vast, vast majority of AB users already possess their chosen codex or army book and use AB as a convenience tool to assist their hobby. And even if they don't own it they're a) missing out on everything interesting and b) still going to be paying GW hundreds of £/$ for the (probably rubbish) 3,000 point army they just rustled up. Silly boys and/or girls and/or Orks.

[imcdonnell]

I use Army builder extensively and have 3 licences for my son's PC and a laptop.

This enables lists to be produced quickly and easily. These can be saved and then easily edited.

Granted that updates to the codex files means that some lists have to be redone - this is very easy.

Lists also have all of the stats on them, special rules etc...

The trial version allows for 3 units to be listed - have a go and see for yourself.

[DarkAngelHopeful]

I've never used AB, but I never have (or rarely have, I'll leave it open) any mistakes on my lists. I use an excel spreadsheet and have it add up my points. Excel is always accurate if you put in the right numbers and formulas.

EDIT: You could probably make your own "army builder" if you were creative with Excel.

[Aldramelech]

Never used it, never will.

I enjoy sitting down with my book and army roster sheet, its relaxing.

But Im from a generation where work didnt stop because the computers stopped working, in fact more got done if the computers stopped working

[Duke]

Why do I have a sneaking feeling that this is going to end up in someone signature... Right next to the or stance on the FSM debate. Somethinglike "I use AB to build my FSM list, and proud!"

Seriously though, I agree with alder to some point. I like opening my codex on my couch and building a list... Though I do think AB is a great added value, especially when I am making my way to tournaments.

Buffo is spot on though, for every one error in a AB list I see hand written idts with 5+ mistakes.

2 points though.
1. AB is not the end all of st buidling and should still be double checked with old fashioned means.
2. Even if something is a "gameplay tool," you should still pay for it. Not paying for AB is like going to your FLGS and not paying for a tac template cause it is a "gameplay tool.". If you like something someone makes, pay them for it.

Duke