Codex Astares, why oh why !!!

[Goochman]

With only 9 first founding Chapters why GW doesn't do a codex for each of them?
I mean, each Chapter has his unique combat style so why not?
I am tired of this Vanilla Marine stuff. But hell the Ultrasmurfs have it all. ( not counting GK ) You look, and there's at least 7 characters for the Ultrasmurfs and one for the other first founders.
It should be:
Codex for ea. of the First with rules for the Seconds inside, and make the difference ex. White Scars ( Mobil Units ), Imperial Fist ( Defense and Siege ),Black Ravens ( Hit and Run, Infiltrate ) or something like that, in all the fluff you keep reading that the Emperor did make the Astares the same but different to cover all kinds of battle grounds or situations why not in the game?
I believe that would balance a little more the game and it won't continue to spiral under control as is right now that is not balanced at all.
I play BA, IF, SW, CF, BT, IG and Sororitas ( witch hunters if you wanna call it ) so you see I like first and second founding chapters ( so there's no hate there ! )
But I strongly believe that a Codex Black Templar doesn't represent the Imperial Fist.
I know GW is all abt. money. But damn!!!!

Brother G
"The Emperor Protects"
* Remember Rynns*

[Mr.Pickelz]

Why would Codex Black Templars represent the Imperial Fists? The BT are a second founded chapter from them, and if you know the background, split off from there to continue the "Great Crusade", as the religious zealots they are. The IF play differently because of this, IF = Ground Attack/ Siege Warfare; BT = mass infantry charge with some tank support ( aka the Land Raider Crusader) while shouting prayers off to the emperor for help.

[DrLove42]

I think the fact remains even if they played differently there would just be too many to play

As it stands there are 7 Power Armour books (Wolves, Vanilla, B Angels, D Angels, Templars, Knights, Sisters)(plus 1 for pointy evil marines)
There are 7 non-power armoured armies (Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Nids, Deamons, Guard). This isn't veyr balenced as it is, with marines dominating the releases (every other book is marines)

If you introduced sperate books for each unrecognised founding chapter (Fists, R Guard, Iron Hands, W Scars, Salamanders) there would be 12 books to 7. (it gets worse if you count Man vs Xenos - then its 14 to 6)

Also count in that if you gave every marine chapter its own book, you'd ahve to give every Chaos legion there own book for fairness. And while at it, why not give every Eldar Craftworld its own book? (In the fluff they're as seperate in style as marine chapters are). And then different Ork groups (Speed Freeks, Bad Moons, Evil suns...each has their own style)

Simple answer is they don't because theres too many books alread,y and doing more would be impossible

Slightly longer answer is, some chapters don't need their own books, because they're not very different from other races. Salamanders don't need their own books, as the only thing different between that book and Vanilla Marines book would be more flamers

[Goochman]

Why would Codex Black Templars represent the Imperial Fists? The BT are a second founded chapter from them, and if you know the background, split off from there to continue the "Great Crusade", as the religious zealots they are. The IF play differently because of this, IF = Ground Attack/ Siege Warfare; BT = mass infantry charge with some tank support ( aka the Land Raider Crusader) while shouting prayers off to the emperor for help.

Well brother I was referring to the different codex's but since you brought it up, in the fluff it says that The Great Rogal Dorn separated his Legion creating the Black Templars and Crimson Fist, he made the BT out of his most zealous followers making Sigismund his first CM. In ten thousand Millennium I believe that the chapter could evolve, don't you?
When I said that the codex BT was a weak representation of the IF is because it is. Their Primarch is still Dorn as well, why GW makes them more important than where they came?

Brother G

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

We already have too many Space Marine codexes, why add more? Sure, a little more flexibility in the standard codex would be nice, but having an individual codex for each First Founding chapter would be a fair bit ridiculous.

The Imperial Fists follow the Codex Astartes closely enough that they are well represented by the vanilla codex - Black Templars do not, so they get their own codex. Nothing to do with how "important" either is fluffwise.

Space Marines are your favorite, and that's great - but other players are into Eldar, Tau, Orks etc. Drowning the game in even more Space Marine codexes than we already have would start to push those players away.

[Wolfshade]

To quote myself from another thread where you raised this:

After the heresy Roboute Guilliman published his Codex Astartes to which all the First founding and successor chapters should be following. Given that the Ultramarines were the largest of all the Chapters (that stayed loyal at least) as they were split they would keep their gene-lords teachings, there is also lots of references the the Ultramarine geneseed being one of the most stable so a significant number of later founding chapters use this as their basis and so again would quite strictly adhere to the teachings.
The problem with do a codex for each of the first foundings is that you would end up with 18 (+2) codecii for powered armoured boys, +1 GKs. Then compare that with the xenos which is 7? and you have a very unbalanced world. By exentension different necron forces from different tomb worlds would fight in different styles, as would the eldar of different craft worlds and pretty soon you have a huge number of codecii but very little different choices. My personal view of the Codex Space Marine is that it is such a broad book that you can use it to field a number of different armies that are different flavours but are still adherants to the Codex Astartes.

[Chaoschrist]

I wouldn't say they need a seperate book each, but I think they could (or should) do something similar like they did in the 4th ed marines book with the traits you had. Maybe a bit more traits to mix it up a bit more, add in some FOC changes, a unit here and there... but I don't think each army needs own codex, unless... unless it's really different from what the marine codex says and has a fair share of army specific units. Like Neophytes/initiates in BT, maybe the Deathwing/Ravenwing stuff in Dark angels

[GrogDaTyrant]

- but other players are into Eldar, Tau, Orks etc. Drowning the game in even more Space Marine codexes than we already have would start to push those players away.

The game is already pushing those players away. When the slightest variant marine chapter gets a unique codex for the sake of sales, but they can't even be bothered to throw a bone to the different craftworlds, clans, or IG regiments in their own codex, it tends to turn people off. And it's not like there aren't any other systems out there handling variant armies better than GW.

[Levitas]

I'm gonna go ahead and reference this thread...

[url]http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=19792[/url]

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

The game is already pushing those players away. When the slightest variant marine chapter gets a unique codex for the sake of sales, but they can't even be bothered to throw a bone to the different craftworlds, clans, or IG regiments in their own codex, it tends to turn people off. And it's not like there aren't any other systems out there handling variant armies better than GW.

Mmmm, I'd kill for a detailed Iyanden Necromancer army list.

Goochman: You liked the look of the Tempus Fugitives 30k stuff, right? How about that setup for a Space Marines Codex? A generic set of units and Wargear, with each founding legion getting ~3 pages giving it a unique FOC, Chapter Tactics, Special Characters and a couple of unique units. Gives 'em all a good deal with one codex, could even wrap Blood/Dark Angels in with that model. Hell, that model would apply well to most of the codexes.