The Force Awakens - Spoilerific Discussion.

[Charistoph]

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Anyone else think Ben looks and acts like a young Snape before he quit being a Deatheater?

[eldargal]

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[Mr Mystery]

A fair point well made.

I know in retrospect the original trilogy wasn't particularly female sympathetic, but for her time Leia broke the mould, so it's massively pleasing to see Disney picking up that baton and simply casting who they clearly considered to best for each role.

Are Poe and Finn gay? Who knows. It's been far from established either way. BB-8, male or female? Up to the viewer.

Does Finn have a thing for Rey? Not from what I've seen. Far more just a support group being there for each other. Finn, to the best of his knowledge (remember, he doesn't actually see Rey using the Force!) dragged Rey away from her home and into horrific danger. That's why he wants to rescue her himself. He feels responsible.

Such a good movie!

[eldargal]

Leaked cut footage of Kylo Ren:


Leia was amazing, problem was she wat only woman in the galaxy.

certainly in terms of canon can't say that Poe and Finn are gay/bi, but the actors have said hey played it like a romance so there is certainly deliberate subtext there heh, and more romantic chemistry betwen them than Rey and anyone.

[CoffeeGrunt]

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Just got back from watching this last night, very enjoyable.

The cinematography in this movie, was simply gorgeous. I don't think a single shot was wasted, nothing felt muddled, JJ really brought his A game to this one. There are so many likable characters, and they feel so much more believable than the Prequels. Finn and Rey have great on-screen chemistry, there's some serious bromance if not more between Poe and Finn, and they mesh with the old hands really well. It makes for a cast you can get behind and cheer on for victory.

I also liked the humour in this. It didn't override and detract from any tension or action, it was consistently funny, and it didn't feel childish. Highlights include Rey and the Stormtrooper she mind-controls, Chewie and the doctor, and Finn and Phasma 'who's in charge now, huh?!' Many other scenes that make we want to go book a second viewing so I can take it all in properly.

The action as well is much better, as one would expect from a modern, high-budget film. We watched Hope and Empire the night before this to kinda prime ourselves, and spent the entirety of Hope ripping into everything from the Empire apparently only being able to afford four Tie fighters to defend the Death Star with, to Storm Trooper aim. Off the bat in Force Awakens, they establish the Storm Troopers as being a bit more competent, and it's a pretty cool, brutal scene that establishes things nicely.

As Mystery said, the scene that really got the hype going was the one with Maz's castle under attack, then the camera pans to the lake beside it as a cloud of water vapour is closing in fast. That moment and the battle following was damn cool, and beautifully shot. It's also cool to see Finn trying to fight with a saber, but only really getting to the point of just about managing to block incoming hits. That energy truncheon thing was cool, interesting to see anti-Jedi equipment issued to Storm Troopers.

The only thing that irked me, was that it felt a bit...safe. The formula's much the same as Hope, and the FO is much the same kind of threat as the Empire. There's similar failed strategy, (would it kill the Empire to put a fleet on guard around their hyper-expensive planet killers, for Christ's sake?) Similar Weak Point of Doom. They brought in a lot of old hands and familiar faces as if to pull in fans of the OT, and the callbacks became a little too much, perhaps. Honestly though, I can fully understand why they took this approach, especially after the Prequels, but what they added to the universe held up damn well. I'd like to see Episode VIII really start to lean more on their new stuff, the new characters. I hope we see this evolve into its own thing.

Also, why another planet killer? Funnily enough, I don't even consider that sort of thing to even be an Empire thing, it doesn't fit their MO. Gimme a moment, I'm just going to use an example from another universe to compare to the Death Star, the Covenant from Halo.

Now, the Death Star can annihilate a planet in a single blast. Starkiller Base can annihilate several, by the looks of it. Quick, brutal, powerful. It's a sledgehammer to the head of the enemy. No fleet action, no fighters or ground invasion, just a big ol' beam and an asteroid field where a planet used to be.

However, the Covenant feel more Sith than the actual Sith. The Covenant can appear at any time in your isolated, backwater system on the edge of UNSC space. You get whispers and radar pings signalling them at the edge before they jump into the system, right in front of your defensive fleet. You mobilise and try to mount a defense, but through superior technology, numbers and manpower they smash your fleet aside as it tries its best to cover a civilian retreat. A few get through before the net closes and the Covenant gain orbital supremacy. They surround the planet, and start pouring troops, tanks and air support into the cities. Town-by-town, building-by-building, room-by-room, they move in and kill everyone. Civilian or military, old or young. No-one is spared. They then claim the prize they landed for, typically an ancient Forerunner artifact, then get back to their ships.

Once their troops are withdrawn, they begin glassing the planet. Methodically, they split the planet into a grid, and their ships move into position and begin using their plasma lances to boil everything below, melting it all into a vitrified slurry that cools into bubbling glass. Buildings, mountains and fields all end up the same. It can take months if the fleet is small, but they dedicate themselves to it with an intense focus humans can't comprehend. They cleanse the planet of all possibility of humans ever living there again.

And the civilian transports that escaped at first? They're left untouched once they break orbit. They watch, they retreat to safe colonies, and spread the word, spread images of a planet made of burning glass, with a smashed fleet of human ships burning in orbit above it.

Given that the signature Sith moves involve either slowly choking your opponent, or electrocuting them to death, the latter approach feels more Sith. Spread fear, spread pain. Take your time and be cruel with your kill. Use force to shatter your prey's defense, then torture them as they lay helpless. Show them the might of your fleet as its blasters pound everything in sight into ash. Don't leave an asteroid field as a symbol, because it's unrecognisable as being a planet. Leave a burnt, ashen shell of a world. Leave the scorched ruins of high and mighty spires, of senate halls and once-beautiful buildings.

Leave your tortured enemy as a cruel reminder of what crossing you entails, and make sure some survive to spread the tale. I don't think Disney will ever go that far, but it'd be interesting to see this as the First Order's MO, given their SIEG HEIL nature. Then, when they're assaulting the planet, our plucky heroes have to try and break up their fleet in a last-ditch attempt to save the lives of those on the Republic planet. Thousands are dying ever minute under the bombardment, meaning that rather than a countdown to a planet blow up, our heroes are aware that every second is a tragedy.

And after they win, it's pyhrric. They pick over the rubble and pull lucky survivors out, fear is rampant and the First Order makes itself known as a powerful entity that will visit retribution upon anything which defies it. The Republic can rise up, again, to stand against it.

I dunno, I just think that silly, giant planet killers are stupid. Why do that, when you could build a thousand star destroyers, and roast a planet slowly? That, is surely the Sith way.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Fin clearly latches onto Rey because he's never been treated nicely by anyone who didn't get something out of it before. I don't think it has anything romantic there.
Rey and Po, who knows, it'd be awesome but I honestly don't mind as long as the characters are well developed.
Mad props for the film btw, as thus far the only starwars film I liked was Strikes Back and I liked this one a great deal.

[Morgrim]

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Yeah, I admittedly didn't the vibe that Finn and Po are currently into each other, but more that there was a lot of chemistry and that they could BECOME an item. That once Finn wakes up Po could ask him on whatever the 'hey I'm an awesome pilot watch me trying to be suave' equivalent of a date is. (Do children raised as indoctrinated stormtroopers know what a date is? Someone had better explain that bit to him. :P )

[Tyrendian]

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very good movie, if not quite the masterpiece in our time that 4-6 were in their days, but that's a tall order...
Mostly very good characters, at least on the light side of things. Very nice action scenes, and not grossly overdone either. Just about the right amount of humor, BB8 was totally awesome (and that's what I'd feared the most, Disney turning the whole thing into a slapstick nightmare with BB8 being the new JarJarBleargh).
The only major letdown for me were the pretty pathetic bad guys. I mean, Kylo Ren was a badass in the first half, until he first took off his mask - that whiny face just killed any menace he had built up before. And then him, trained and powerful Jedi/Sith/whatevsyouwannacallhim that he is, first throws a temper tantrum like some five year old that doesn't get his ice cream, and then gets trounced in light saber combat by two total noobs, one of whom doesn't even have a shred of force powers and got beaten up by your random Storm Trooper with a stick before. How sad is that. First truly weak main villain in the series for me, Vader was menacing as hell, Darth Maul all kinds of scary, Dooku well Christopher Lee nuffsaid, Palpatine had very good "evil genius puppetmaster flair" in both trilogies - and now we get his total failure? HOW? Especially after the awesome scenes he had in the first half (stopping a blaster bolt in midair beat everything the other baddies did all through the movies, except maybe Darth Maul first showing off his dual saber)...
Phasma gets set up as a badass Stormtrooper leader, and then literally dropped into a garbage dump without any good moments at all. I mean, couldn't you at least have shown how she was captured in some kind of decent fight instead of just having her suddenly trudge along and doing everything they want her to? Such a letdown, and waste of Gwendoline Christie... Although I do hold out hope she might make a "surprise" return in the later movies.
General Hux aka Adolf Junior just yells around, gives a textbook badguy believing he does the right thing by bringing order speech, and is generally incompetent at his job.
And the general incompetence of FO military was staggering... I mean the soldiers themselves did a good job, even the Duckface Troopers felt decently threatening and the new TIEs were awesome... But it felt like no one in the entire First Order had ever heard of the concept of Sensors, or Patrols for that matter. Or how else did Finn and Poe get off the chubby Star Destroyer and down onto the planet and into hiding? How did Rey and Finn get the Falcon off said planet again? How did anything ever get close to Starkiller Base? Although I will say its critical weakness didn't feel quite as idiotic this time around...

[eldargal]

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I think that is the point of Ren though. He isn't a powerful badass, he's a scared little boy trying to live up to the warped image of Vader Snoke has filled his head with. We see him at his most intimidating when he is attacking a village with a large military force behind him and he is largely unchallenged. We start to see him fall apart the moment his family come on the scene and his internal conflict starts dulling his abilities.

Phasma was still kind of cool, looming around like a giant SHINY AND CHROME amazon, but yes it was still disappointing overall to just have her dumped in a garbage chute lol.

I loved Hux though, he was like the quintessiant arrogant British Empire officer. I really see the FO as kind of like the epitomy of Imperial arrogance. All these arrogant little ****s brought up thinking they should have inherited the galaxy because they are so much better, and then Snoke comes along and radicalises them basically. They are arrogant, and the soldiers might be better trained, but they aren't necessarily and elite organisation overall.

[Cutter]

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Kylo Ren was a bit of a letdown.

Hopefully Kylo Stimpy will bring his A game.