LEGALWATCH: Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse Verdict

[40kGamer]

As a company to work for, they are despicable, the way they treat potential employees is disgusting, I've had test sculpts sent to reaper miniatures and had feedback along with other little treats like copies of artwork and $100 of free minis, where as GW have not returned some of the greens I sent them, claiming to have mailed them, only for nothing to arrive.

Had a similar experience with them... I finally got my original back broken and missing a piece with no explanation. While I love their games I quite actively dislike the company. Best of luck with your future projects. Enjoy the freedom of better defined legal lines.

[Nabterayl]

If I can interject a bit of humanity here ...

I've used Chapterhouse bits in the past for projects 40K-related and otherwise, and I was glad that they sold something I needed at the time. That said, I almost always prefer Games Workshop's products for projects 40K-related and otherwise, and I want their business to thrive.

That said ...

I think it might profit everybody to remember that this case is not articulating new rules per se. It has always been 100% clear, from the perspective of United States law, that companies can make miniature parts that are compatible with Games Workshop kits and even whole models that players might find compatible with Games Workshop rules. It has always been 100% clear, from the perspective of United States law, that other companies can use Games Workshop trademarks in descriptive ways.*

What has not always been clear is where the border falls between, say, making after-market heads, arms, guns, shoulder pads, and backpacks that are compatible with space marines and simply making after-market space marines. But remember that the border was always there.

In the past, when Games Workshop sent a cease-and-desist letter to a "third-party" manufacturer,** it was always possible for the manufacturer to say, "I'm not doing anything wrong. It has always been 100% clear, from the perspective of United States law, that companies can make miniature parts that are compatible with Games Workshop kits etc." The response, implied or explicit, would be, "Yes, that's true, but are you so sure that you're only doing that that you're willing to meet us in court?" And the answer would almost always be no.

Regardless of which side is right in a dispute like that (and as I said, I am, if anything, on Team GW), that sort of resolution is a loss for the rule of law. People with claims that are in reality meritorious - whether Games Workshop or a 3PM - should never have to back down simply because they aren't sure.

Now we have a case that is not articulating new rules but giving us more guidance on where the boundaries are for the rules that have always been there.*** That is good for the rule of law. People can now send cease and desist orders, and resist cease and desist orders, with greater certainty and accuracy. That is good for the rule of law.

And I for one am in favor of victories for the rule of law, even if it has a business result that makes one or more parties unhappy.

* Which is all anybody has any business doing, really. I don't make tyranid heads. I make heads that look like tyranid heads and fit on tyranid bodies.
** I don't really like that description, since the truth is that these companies make bits that are useful for more than just engaging in the Games Workshop hobby; I've used more than a few customizing roleplaying miniatures, for instance. I can't think of a better term, though.
*** Another reason I'm interested in the details of who won what. Without knowing that, we can't really say what the boundaries are, which is the only interesting thing about this case.

[Psychosplodge]

As I said elsewhere GW never had a chance in an American court .

You only have to look at the locations of people on either side of the argument in any of the many threads, and there seems to be a fundamental difference in what people think are acceptable depending what side of the water you live on.

I personally think the Jury got it wrong. But we'll see what happens next.

Question: what would you do if GW withdrew completely from the NA market because of poor IP protection?

[rle68]

How can you legally use someones trademarks? This is gonna be interesting.
Share price predictions any one?

didnt you read? gw doesnt have trademarks for what they claimed they did

[rle68]

As I said elsewhere GW never had a chance in an American court .

You only have to look at the locations of people on either side of the argument in any of the many threads, and there seems to be a fundamental difference in what people think are acceptable depending what side of the water you live on.

I personally think the Jury got it wrong. But we'll see what happens next.

Question: what would you do if GW withdrew completely from the NA market because of poor IP protection?

never happen.. not in a million years.. they stop selling north america they close their doors.. this isnt a were better than you thing but i am going to assume north america spends alot more then europe does

[timdp]

Question: what would you do if GW withdrew completely from the NA market because of poor IP protection?

LOL! Of course they are going to dump 50% of their 40K sales...

[Psychosplodge]

About 40% of turnover iirc, Europe as a whole (lol) has a higher population, so probably more potential, plus is more densely populated so costs can be kept lower.

Tesco are doing it, why not GW?

[Clockwork]

didnt you read? gw doesnt have trademarks for what they claimed they did

Didn't you read? It's more complicated than that. And while GW had trademarks some of the rulings say CHS didn't infringe on them. That's not the same thing as not having trademarks.

[rle68]

About 40% of turnover iirc, Europe as a whole (lol) has a higher population, so probably more potential, plus is more densely populated so costs can be kept lower.

Tesco are doing it, why not GW?

just a guess here net worth per capita US 143,727
Europe 10,504

2-1 difference in population Europe over US... drastic difference in income per capita

,

[templarboy]

As I said elsewhere GW never had a chance in an American court .

You only have to look at the locations of people on either side of the argument in any of the many threads, and there seems to be a fundamental difference in what people think are acceptable depending what side of the water you live on.

I personally think the Jury got it wrong. But we'll see what happens next.

Question: what would you do if GW withdrew completely from the NA market because of poor IP protection?

Could their business stay afloat without the US market? I would be interested to see a break down of how much money is spent in the US on GW stuff versus the rest of the world. Personally, I think they would be a pale shade of what they are now without the massive US market. Just a side thought, most of the 3rd party parts folks I have bought from are not based in the United States. They have been out of the UK (Anvil, Victoria), Poland (Maxmini, Kromlech, Scibor), and Russia(Some guy that sold me a Doom, I forget). CHS and Paulson Games are the only US based ones I can even come up with. Let's cast the blame where it belongs. You might not be bashing the US but the bigotry is getting a bit tiresome on these topics. I could start making comments about the predatory actions of GW and blame the British system just as easily. The US system is not to blame for this debacle. Now the law is better defined here. Let's see what happens.