6th ed rumors

[N.I.B.]

but I have one big thing left:
- monstrous creatures: 2D6 versus vehicles, ignore armour, move as infantry unless stated otherwise, are ignored for Abandon as ICs, IGNORE TERRAIN WHEN CHARGING

Big thing? What's the difference from now? MC's already have most of that stuff.
MC's already have move through cover, so they roll 3d6 for charging through terrain - pretty likely to bring up a 5 or 6.

[LordGrise]

This whole thing seems like such a huge change it essentially becomes a whole new game. Last time I saw this was the switch from AD+D 3.5 to D+D 4.0 - same name (just about) entirely new ruleset - and it applied much focused negative pressure to highly enlarged verdant members.

Everything I've seen about this suggests a hard shift towards melee combat - not good news for my beloved (and only) army of Tau.

Perforce I'm with the wait and see crowd. I hope to God this is completely false. - either that or I hope O'Shovah finally got his order of pistols and bayonets... and Kroot...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'm hearing some strong indications from 'my sources' () that these are legitimate, but they aren't the full story. And ghost21 on Warseer says much the same thing, there will be a lot of optional rules, a semi-seperate competitive list, oh and a chaos legions codex.

Dont forget the most exciting rumour Ghost21 gave us of all them : Hrud and Umbra

An awesome and actually original xenos race - and likely one that will get moaned about like all the newer races before it which makes it double awesome.

[GrenAcid]

@Asymmetrical Xeno
Yeah!!....levitating orb of darkness is such a cool and fun race to play....I cant wait to....well you cant do much if you a ball. And what about codex/special rules?? balls as troops....and really BIG balls as Mc`s??

[HsojVvad]

I can tell you the icebergs I have found hidden within it:

allowing assoult after deesprike + very punishing scatter = fair
allowing assoult after deepstrike for a melee monster that has a spezial rule to be immune to allmost all incidents and can even get assoult grenades trough a cheap stratagem = brutal (Trygon)

allowing for every 5th wound to be assigned by the offensive player (his pick) + basically killing wound allocation shenanigans = rending is very powerfull (just pick the rends to allocate and kill those important searges/people with a worse invul). a good heavy venom cannon (small s9 blast) has an acceptable chance to snipe a charackter from a unit (do 5 wounds, force the HQ to take one save and risk beeing blasted)

shooting after assoult: killing transports with melee units suddenly is very deadly to the squads within (kill it with say a carnifex and then use your bioplasm plasmacannon onto the squad which is tightly packed together and/or shoot them up with some devourers).

brutal pinning (you have to save on your halfed value or you cannot shoot!) + army wide fearless + one of the best pinning weapons in the game (biowhores/spores) = very effective supression fire

infiltrators beeing subject to harder nightfight unless they move + genestealers = suddenly very hard to shift death swarm ~18" away from your guys)

some of the stratagems + nids = totall pwnage (nightfight for the WHOLE game, assoult grenades for ALL units, one usr for some squads).

runestaff-esque blocking for every psyker (with a cheap stratagem also on 4+) + zoantropes, broodlords and tyrants = suddenly tyranids and eldar are the hardest to hurt with psychic powers due to the shadow AND blocking.


earning victory points over the course of the game (and a force many objectives a shooty army cannot sit on all of them) also means that with as many fast/infiltrating units as nids you can easily gain map dominance early and "sit it out" if you controll say 2/3 objectives.

forcing troops out of their boxes to score also increases your long range anti-personal firepower's influence further (really looking at allmost a full set of 9 biovores here)

Well, I saw a few things. So I'm just going to bullet point them. As a nid player here are a few things I saw that your army should be able to realy take advantage of in general.

-Blast weapons now hit veciles with full strenth at all times.

-The new BS to hit chart means it's easy for nids to hit tanks.
-Skirmishers no longer get a cover save for going flatout.

-After assault a non weapon skill vecile you always get a 3" consolidate move regardless if you destroyed it or not.
-The new Movement and Fleet rules means Nids get in CC faster then ever.

-Beasts have a base move of 8" instead of 6"

-Mind Slave seems to suggest it's a USR nids will be given threw erreta.

-The new "Braceing" rules that help make MC's more survivable, since you can give them two saves.

-"Charge by chance" is going to help out greatly for killing transports in CC. It means when assaulting transports if the unit jumping out end up with-in 1" of you, you are now locked in CC with said unit. (This is huge, since it means no more killing transports in CC, only to be rapid fired/charged/ect by the enemy next turn. You can be locked in CC were you do best. It is now viable to kill transports in CC, you are not forced to have to kill them in the shooting to get at the guys inside.)

-Veclies are more likely to wreak then explode, so your guys will not die horrible if you do CC tanks to death. A plus for when doing the above.

-Nid players can spend 4 Stratagem points to give all their units assault grenades.

Thanks guys I didn't know that. I guess once I finally get use to the rules of 5th editon, I will have to forget them and start playing 6th. :P

For the comments of people saying the rules suck they will stick to 4th edtion, funny, I clearly remember people saying rules of 5th edtion sucked (rumours at the time) and they will stick to 4th. So it is perfectly fine if you stick to 5th, it will not be bothering us who want to and looking forward to these rumours if true.

[DarkLink]

Facing mechguard? Buy nightfight for the whole game

[Lockark]

Thanks guys I didn't know that. I guess once I finally get use to the rules of 5th editon, I will have to forget them and start playing 6th. :P

For the comments of people saying the rules suck they will stick to 4th edtion, funny, I clearly remember people saying rules of 5th edtion sucked (rumours at the time) and they will stick to 4th. So it is perfectly fine if you stick to 5th, it will not be bothering us who want to and looking forward to these rumours if true.

Xas made a mistake about wound allocation. Most IC's have both a Armour Save and a Invul Save. (Plus the new ability to take two saves.) This means that they are considered a separate armour save grouping for wound allocation.

(Unless said IC has no Inv of any kind, and the same armour saves as the rest of the squad.)

From how I understood the rules the idea is the opponent gets to choose the model that gets removed for every 5th unsaved wound. Controlling player still allocates the wounds before saves by Armour groupings as he chooses.


I could be incorrect, but this is how I have been reading it.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

@Asymmetrical Xeno
Yeah!!....levitating orb of darkness is such a cool and fun race to play....I cant wait to....well you cant do much if you a ball. And what about codex/special rules?? balls as troops....and really BIG balls as Mc`s??

You know I read comments like yours nearly every other day, and they always have that same patronising tone to them too. Look, just cos you can't think of unit ideas doesnt mean others can - especially the designers - and why this constant need to be so patronising in the first place? couldnt you of just said "what kind of units could they have as I can't personally think of any myself?" instead ?

Here's a list for you I came up with on the top of my head. Then again I expect you'll just reply with another patronising comment anyway, so im not sure why I even bother sometimes - but here goes.


HQ :
Remnant of Qah - Special Character. Take him to make Shadowsmiths troops and thus make viable pure Umbra Armies (if one wants). A larger chunk of Qah that did not become an Umbra, but can only be awakened with them. Very much like the Eldar's Avatar equivilent except a one-off character. Looks like a deformed oceanic crab with pincer-like nodes along the circumference of the body. Various vents show small egg-like growths which act as sensors.


Troops :
Umbra ShadowSmiths - Well, these are exactly like the ones you see in the artwork. The basic, generic troops. The basic orbs with all the tentacles/mouths ect.

Elites :
Nightmare Gollums - A little like Daemons in that they are a reflection of peoples innermost fears. Very much like the ghosts in MR James type books - ghostly symbols of terror. Could be used as terror and infiltration type units. Have a semi-humanoid look - except have slithering slug-like bodies split into two, and sharp talons extruding form their hands, they have heads but no faces. One of the Umbra's shadow-consruct types.

Entropic-Field Orb - Ok, imagine a sphere that has been sliced apart at the top and bottom, and the different slices hang out at the sides. Inside of it, they'd be an overgrown pulsating mass of flesh with various organic Funnels and Tubes which extrude outwards from the sides - these would give off a kind of gas or fog which causes mass-aging effect. A weapon used more to slow-down and weaken the opposition rather than actually physically harm them.

Fast Attack :
Shadow Swarms - Imagine these like the equivilent of scarabs or rippers. Tiny warp constructs amassed into a swarm - I'd imagine these more like Lamreys, worms or snakes but with a more Giger-ish look and feel.

Star-Vampires - Remember the Shadow-ships from babylon5? Imagine something like that, but more solid-looking and with organic "socket"-like cockpits with a few Umbra orbs sat inside by useage of arterial linkages. A fast-attack shadow-construct Flyer.

Shade-Ghouls - Black shadowy faceless entities which have gained a small degree of sentience allowing them to roam free from their Umbra creators. More MR James influence, with a bit of X-files thrown in. They could have shadowy swords, guns and such, but still have a very alien and "Wrong" look to them. As a potential fluff-piece - they could be linked to the Dark Eldar Mandrakes. (Afterall mandrakes are half-shadow, so maybe these could be the other lifeform they are hybridised, leading to a more humanoid shadow lifeform).

Heavy Support :
Avatar Of Qah - A hivemind of sorts. Lots of Umbra, mainly smaller ones - linked to a large "power Core" of warp energy through blackened organic trunks. The smaller ones are able to use their collective intelligence to concentrate power from the core to shoot hive wave warp-energy blasts at the enemy. Perhaps an HQ or Heavy Support. The Core would resemble a large "Alien egg" type construct, with veins and vestigal arteries covering it and forming non-euclidean patterns. There would be several large spike-type forations around the sides in a symmetrical order which feed into the central-core.

Transport :
Wraith-Wall - A litteral wall of shadowy energies, inspired by various creatures from chinese mythology. Lots of mouth-like holes on one side - enough for say ten Umbra. Yes, it's the equivilent of a transport vehicle. But could be armed with a similar entropic-field type weapons as well. Perhaps larger funnels/tubes to show more powerful equivilent. More Giger-esque in visuals with the wall made of biomechanical type textures.

There, thats about 9 unit ideas in total, and only a few of them are true "Umbra", the rest being shadow-constructs they have created. It seems completely doable as a kind of niche-army within a more mainstream Hrud list.

Flame away I guess

[RogueGarou]

Looking over these rumors, and the comments, there are some odd things. First, things were mentioned as being polished for grammar but I don't recall seeing the whole conversation. There could be bits and pieces which might be interpreted differently if you see the question and the unpolished response.

Second, with all of the complaining going around about how 40k needs to be changed and modified by the internet crowd because "Game Y" does this and "Game X" does that, would you not expect a company that at least peeks into the player world to begin making changes to their game?

Third, Jervis is one of the older hands at the company. Since he took over a lot of older items have been rolling back into the game. I would not be too surprised to see overwatch and multiple saves come back into the game, as well as some other items from 2E.

Fourth, the source for the rumors is very unhappy with being a part of the company but either has somehow gotten hold of a set of documents or has something to do with either game design or book design or something to see a book. As quickly as something can be created in Adobe and then printed on a laser printer, perhaps what he has seen is a mockup rulebook for playtesting.

Fifth, who knows if the contacts are not the same person in the company? I can create an on-line account and post all manner of things and create another account and post the information to someone else. If there is something you do not like, cool. If there is, cool. No reason to get all kinds of mad about it until the game rolls out and you see what the game and your armies are going to finally look like. Then make a choice.

Sixth, I have been playing since 2E. When 3E came out, I was not at all happy with the game. It was much more bland than the version it replaced. I played two or three games of 3E to test it out and still did not care for it or the new slim Codex books. I stopped playing until 4E came out and made some changes to the game. If 6E turns out to be not so much fun, then I won't play it. I will still have my models and will continue to play whatever the rest of the group that comes to my house wants to play. When things get moved around with new rules or a new edition, then we'll play that. But after investing nearly 20 years into the hobby, it is about having a good time with friends. I am over the idea of playing the game just to win. As long as it is fun to play. If my Guard army gets into hand to hand across the line, they are toast. If my World Eaters get shot to bits, they are toast. As long as the new game has something that is fun for each army, the game will be fun. If it isn't as much fun, then we will break out the Battletech armies that I have been playing for even longer than 40k and bust heads or we will break out the Necromunda rules or Bloodbowl or whatever.

Seventh, how much does being unhappy with a ruleset really do anything today? For all of the complaining about it here or on Warseer or any number of other web sites really make a change? Back when I started playing there were several fan-produced magazines that included alternative rules for Battletech and some other games. And some of those things that became popular enough were integrated into the main game ruleset. They also influenced the game designers. Try doing something rather than just sitting around typing "Oh noes, my favorite model with twelve arms and ten plasma pistols is hosed nowzzz!" on some site. Decipher's old Star Wars card game is still in play with an active player community ten years after it went out of production. Fix things rather than complain to anyone within earshot about how things should be anyway rather than how they are. It obviously does work with GW. Epic, Space Hulk, Necromunda, rules in White Dwarf, ForgeWorld, flyers, various game expansions, new models... there are plenty of examples of them doing things that fans have asked for and they have tried them but they will only try them if they can make some money from them. If they do not make a change, then you can make the changes yourself to affect the group you are gaming with and that may affect other people. Look at tournament groups who come up with their own rules for tourneys. Some of them become popular and influence other groups, some are not so influential. Instead of complaining that you don't like something, do what you can to change things.

Speaking of changing things, Han shot first. Not second. Not at the same time. First. BEFORE Greedo even thought about drawing down, Han cut him down. Adding those lines here do as much good as insulting people here on the forums or complaining about something GW may or may not do in the coming year. Anyway, have fun with the games. Later, folks.

[Denzark]

AX you always make me twitch in the direction of my flamer...