how many of you pay more for the old metal versions of characters to avoid finecast?

I recently had a nightmare of 4 bad resin kits where the customer support team was literally opening them before sending them and scrounging parts out to me. took 4 weeks and they couldnt find a complete model without a serious molding error. This has basically sent me on the "anti - finecast" crusade where im only seeking out older metal models. The problem is it cost me at least 50 to even 100 percent more for the metal versions.

at least for characters, is anyone else but me looking for the old metal stuff?

If I can scratch build it in plastic an some green stuff, I'd rather do that. If not, I'd convert a similar metal model. To date, I have no fine cast in my collection.

SJ

Don't be afraid to buy painted metal minis. Typically something painted is cheaper than the unpainted, and metal is SUPER EASY to strip. Just a tip to hopefully save you a few bucks.

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Originally Posted by eosgreen

I recently had a nightmare of 4 bad resin kits where the customer support team was literally opening them before sending them and scrounging parts out to me. took 4 weeks and they couldnt find a complete model without a serious molding error. This has basically sent me on the "anti - finecast" crusade where im only seeking out older metal models. The problem is it cost me at least 50 to even 100 percent more for the metal versions.

at least for characters, is anyone else but me looking for the old metal stuff?

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What model/s did you have issues with? and like Gothmog said grab the painted ones cheaps and just strip. I got a metal Brother Corbulo for $8 off Ebay a few months back, he was covers in this ungodly red spray and you couldn't make out what the model if not for his classoc pose of holding his cup up high. Soaked him in fluid over night, took a tooth brush to him and good as new! (of course tho he now sits on my to be painted shelf still lolz)

I prefer to custom-convert if possible, but failing that, I'll take a bad Finecast sculpt (within reason; huge missing chunks or massive deformities are right out) over a metal one, but I admit it's mainly a superstition on my part, on account of 2 metal models:
-Problem Child #1 was an Obliterator, who got spilled off my gaming table at home onto my foot. Being at home I was only wearing socks, not shoes, and I would not be surprised to find out the big lump gave me a hairline fracture for my trouble.
-Problem Child #2 was Lemartes. In all his jump-packing glory, the L-Man fell over at the slightest provocation (even with a washer and a load of lead attached to his base) and worse, being an assault-oriented model, he kept tearing arms off his fellow Death Company or whomever they were fighting.

I own not a single FailCrap "resin" model.

I do own at least 500 metal models.

I did hunt a metal Crusader rather than take a risk on FailCrap.

I prefer metal to plastic because it is far faster to file, clean, and assemble. Quicker to get painted and on the table.
And I don't mind that my Sisters army only has a few poses, it looks great on the table!
From a modeler stand piont, I do also enjoy posing and chopping plastic models, but I recently bought a SpiritSeer Finecast model and its staff warped while laying flat on my table! Junk.

I recently painted a old metal Glorfindel; it reminded me how much I hated metal models. firstly I can clearly see how badly put together the model is (it was one of the first models I had) and it has a noticeable gap between the two halfs of the horse. I had a similar problem with some hellhound metal tanks being warped so badly that they had no correlation. secondly the model is heavy which makes it difficult to paint without touching the painted metal surfaces which leads to the third reason I dislike metal models, it is simply too easy to brush off paint from the edges especially with the build up of lots of thin layers.

now with regard to finecast (and other resin) models, personally I haven't had any with noticeable miscasts so I can't comment on that, I know other people have. however I will stand by the fact that the model is re-moldable with a little hot water, this leads to very good joints and allows for reposing to a certain extent. in addition it is much easier to cut whilst converting the model, I don't know how many saws I have blunted cutting though a handful of metal models.

With regard to JMichael's comment about finding metal easier to prepare, I would say in my experience that Finecast and plastic are much faster for myself, usually only needing me to reach for a craft knife.

I don't own any fine cast models.

I'm really grateful my model of the changeling is metal as that staff would never survive if it was fine cast.

I also went to Ebay to buy metal versions of Draigo, Coteaz and Crowe rather than buy fine cast which was much more expensive.

I personally can't stand metal minis. Heavy, especially en masse, too easy to accidentally rub the paint off, annoying to glue, and even more annoying to try and convert. I only own three metal minis between my 6.5K of Tau and 3.5K of Guard, Aun'shi, a Kroot Shaper, and an old Company Commander with a bionic eye and a power sword, which I bought recently because it was 99p and a genuinely cool sculpt.

I have a metal Demolisher cannon for a Leman Russ, though, and it adds noticeably to the weight. I'd hate to have to carry around a Sisters army of metal minis, especially with those Exorcists!

As far as Finecast, I only have one model, Shadowsun, who came out pretty excellent. Every hero I have I've converted up aside from the aforementioned metals, and I'm lucky to play two armies that don't have an awful lot of Finecast in them, especially Guard.

Finecast/resin and plastic are so superior to metal it isn't fun. also anyone who thinks metal is easier to prepare hasn't had to sand down particularly stubborn mould lines or assemble really fiddly metal models. Hellcannon anyone?

This is one of these rare times that I agree with EG (and others). The old white metal (and lead before them) were pains in the arse to deal, especially the hybrid metal plastic kits. Having to pin every join otherwise it wouldn't hold then if the mould lines were on the inside of a whole they were almost impossible to file and get the pegs to match.
Then take Dante, he is so top heavy it isn't funny. Finecast allows all the fine detail that you used to get in metal, only without them being restricted to positions because of the weight of the materal.

For me, in order of preference?

Plastic, Finecast, Resin, Metal.

Metal is a horrible material to work with, and those who claim to have never had a warped or otherwise miscast piece are, uh...being selective with the truth, and forgetting such joys as buying a model, having to straighten a bit bent in the blister, only to have it snap off, requiring time with a pin drill, greenstuff and brass rod to correct.

Yes, Finecast does indeed have its issues. No material is perfect. But in my experience of the kits, no more so than Metal, and usually a lot easier to fix/sort out.

I like metal models. But I can't say they've all been perfect.
The only FC models I have are limiteds and they have all been good enough if not perfect, but that could be down to better QC, better manufacturing, or being designed for the casting material.
I do like the versatility plastic gives you.

I would be interested in a breakdown of the percentage of problems with Finecast. Now obviously, there are problems, but I think that some of the current hate for Finecast is based on a few anecdotal horror stories that get repeated around the internet, (when was the last time someone complained because they didn't have any problems with Finecast?:)) mixed in with 'OMG I hate GW because it's trendy to hate GW!'

Granted, I don't have a whole lot of Finecast, but I haven't had any problems with it at all, and it would be interesting to see if my experiences are in the majority or minority of customers.

One complaint about Finecast was proven by me to be nonsense, through the inadvisable application of several beers, a Liche Priest model, and a very hot oven.

In short, it doesn't melt. Indeed, I would wager it stands up to very, very hot tempratures better than metal models....

You would lose the bet.
This is pretty much dependent on how the stuff was mixed. I do not know how they have done this but I had a lot of different "types" of Finecast.

1) perfectly fine
2) extremely brittle (you could actually see and "feel" this)
3) extremely soft (let that spear stand around and it will bend downwards over time)

It seems to me that there were some issues with mixing the resin or huge quality differences by their providers.
Not talking about failed minis with bubbles and missing details (they even had a failcast mini on their website when they released it to show off the "awesome details").
I go plastic whenever I can. Made 10 Grotesques out of Hordes Warspears... saves a lot of money, the result is slightly better and its not finecast.

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Originally Posted by Mr Mystery

One complaint about Finecast was proven by me to be nonsense, through the inadvisable application of several beers, a Liche Priest model, and a very hot oven.

In short, it doesn't melt. Indeed, I would wager it stands up to very, very hot tempratures better than metal models....

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I dunno. Sure my Archon is still going strong, but I had a Venomthrope tip over by just standing up in a hot car. Due to tipping over like he was made of rubber, he earned the nickname "Señor Contact Lens". It was never the same again. Then it broke. Mystifyingly, I actually had two Venomthropes sitting in that hot car. Why only one of them went floppy I still don't know, but I suspect that not all Finecast is created equal. I am looking forward to that new plastic Zoan/Venom kit, if only because the grey plastic is more consistently solid.

When I first started wargaming, I really wanted metal models. I wanted the tactile experience of *clonk*ing my model on the table. Then I had to assemble my first big metal model, I think it was a warjack...

I now know that plastic and resin are superior.

That said, when it comes to Finecast, I have been known to try to track down the metal versions when possible or snap them up when I know they're going out of print. I've had some bad experiences with Finecast, and so has nearly everyone I know in my FLGS community. I avoid it when possible.

I do not buy fine cast. its appaling. My friend brought manglar squigs which looked amazing, but distorted in his house in summer (in uk so not even overly hot). i dont understand how they can get it so wrong when other companies are casting in resin and its fine.

Forget characters - I pity anyone who tries to get into Eldar these days. Bought a box of Striking Scorpions about a year ago, and not a single one was usable. Three GW replacement boxes later, and I was still only halfway towards a single decent six-man unit. Finally just broke down and got a box from one of the Russian recasters for half the price. Perfect casts the whole way through.

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Originally Posted by ElectricPaladin

When I first started wargaming, I really wanted metal models. I wanted the tactile experience of *clonk*ing my model on the table. Then I had to assemble my first big metal model, I think it was a warjack...

I now know that plastic and resin are superior.

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When I put together my Seether, I nicknamed it Brock. Because he was from Pewter City. :)

I used to be a metal avenger fan - but I've not had an issue with finecast. working on the models is a lot easier and I don't have to deal with using a jewelers' saw to do conversions.

I buy metal miniatures instead of finecast. I still prefer plastic miniatures over metal miniatures, though.

when the wracks were first released, the guy in store had to open 5 boxes of them just to find 5 models that were acceptable to sell to me. since then no failcast for me. i was lucky as i grabbed a metal archon and Urien before they went out of stock

I personnely prefer plastic, and finecast over metal, I've only have had one bad fincast figure out of the 50 or so that I own, yeah when they first released finecast there where a lot of complaints mainly wracks, and blood angel characters, but now we haven't had any problems with it at my local store, but would love it when aspect warriors are in plastic

I wonder how many of the people who complain bitterly about the failure rate of Finecast when it first appeared and still refuse to buy it now own an Xbox 360?

Urgh, metal was a nightmare. Top-heavy, you had to pin everything that was at all large, so easy to chip, never joined well with plastic... Thank god for modern mostly-plastic-with-some-Finecast!

Every medium has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Plastic does not look as good and doesn't have the same amount of fine detail as resin or metal.
Plastic is far easier to work with and paint.
Resin is the most detailed medium but tends to have more quality problems.

For
Bigs kits, rank and file troops = Give me plastic.
Weapons and arms = Plastic or resin
Elites more and more detailed models = I'd like resin or metal.
HQs and Limited edition = I'd like metal or resin never plastic.

Can you imagine how people would react if the government started making plastic coins? Metal has more raw value and will always do so.

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Originally Posted by Mr Mystery

For me, in order of preference?

Plastic, Finecast, Resin, Metal.

Metal is a horrible material to work with, and those who claim to have never had a warped or otherwise miscast piece are, uh...being selective with the truth, and forgetting such joys as buying a model, having to straighten a bit bent in the blister, only to have it snap off, requiring time with a pin drill, greenstuff and brass rod to correct.

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I've had the problem over the years with Metal figures myself, in fact I own a squad of 2nd Edition Legion of the Damned, and two of the metal figures helmets are all squashed up, I got them from a charity shop though for couple of quid so I can't complain :D

I can't comment on Finecast, since none of my armies use characters which have been made in Finecast (the benifit of having a Spacemarine army that's one of the obscure chapters) :D

I do have resin parts made by third party companies for adding character or converting models, and they on general have been very good, Mostly Maxmini and Micro Art stuff...

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Originally Posted by jonsgot

Every medium has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Plastic does not look as good and doesn't have the same amount of fine detail as resin or metal.
Plastic is far easier to work with and paint.
Resin is the most detailed medium but tends to have more quality problems.

For
Bigs kits, rank and file troops = Give me plastic.
Weapons and arms = Plastic or resin
Elites more and more detailed models = I'd like resin or metal.
HQs and Limited edition = I'd like metal or resin never plastic.

Can you imagine how people would react if the government started making plastic coins? Metal has more raw value and will always do so.

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Having built Glottkin and a Maggoth Rider, I have to disagree about big stuff. Really nice kits, and good detailing to boot.

What metal I do have is 2nd hand; and won't touch finecrap with somebody else's bargepole. I've managed to hold out for my Venomthropes and now it seems I did that right, if rumour is true and everything points to it we're getting plastic ones soon. :)

Other than that most of my HQ's are either scratch built plastic (my Terminator Librarian for eg is a Grey Knight model painted for the Ultras), and my DE Archons and Succubus are all made up from Kabalite and/or Wych kits.

John Bower, you're calling it "Failcrap".
Fair enough.
How many Finecast models have you bought and what were their failings?
Did GW Customer Services let you down too?
Just interested to know why you throw insulting terms about like confetti.

My experience is that I've never had a poor Finecast model and neither have my gaming friends, apart from the first couple of months.
The only time we hear "Failcast" is off people who never bought it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by jonsgot

Can you imagine how people would react if the government started making plastic coins? Metal has more raw value and will always do so.

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People seem to be fine with the steady translation to a wafer of magnetised plastic instead of a pile of metal coins right now. For similar reasons to those in this thread: it's lighter and more convenient to work with most of the time.

I've bought a few finecast models, and if I am planning an exstensive conversion then its MUCH easier to work with than metal, that being said metal has its benefits such as being easier to strip and overall a more durable material, furthermore I can glue peices of metal together gently to get a feel for posing before I pull them apart, clean the joint and begin proper work, cant do that with finecast.


HOWEVER, if I was buying pieces second hand I would buy metal given the option do to the ease with which a person can remove paint and glue form the model resulting in what is essentially the same bare metal as when the item was originally bought. (throw it in acetone for 24 hours and it'll eat the paint and superglue entirely

As for plastic, I find it infinitely better than either Metal and Finecast in all regards.

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Originally Posted by Pssyche

John Bower, you're calling it "Failcrap".
Fair enough.
How many Finecast models have you bought and what were their failings?
Did GW Customer Services let you down too?
Just interested to know why you throw insulting terms about like confetti.

My experience is that I've never had a poor Finecast model and neither have my gaming friends, apart from the first couple of months.
The only time we hear "Failcast" is off people who never bought it in the first place.

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Well, I've bought a few, and I call it Failcost for sure.

My very first was a Warrior Priest, whose head collapsed when I tried to shave off the mould line because there was a huge air bubble where his brain was supposed to be.

I can't remember in what order I bought the others, but:

Inquisitor Karamazov had no pointing finger, just a hollow cavity. It hadn't even snapped off; it just never formed. Many of the protrusions on my Dark Eldar Haemonculus and Grotesque are similarly half-formed, and the Grotesque's waist joint will not line up no matter what angle you turn it at (it shares the latter problem with my Sslyth, only worse because it's scaly).
I took Karamazov back and complained. Customer Services sent over another, whose legs were covered in some kind of sticky brown stuff; I was able to salvage a single workable model between the two of them, which I then snapped half the cables off in the process of cleaning up because of hidden bubbles, much the same way as the Warrior Priest.

Archons and Medusae each have two helmet options, and both of mine came with two malformed helmets. The Archon's had one side higher than the other, lending them a goofy expression instead of an imperious one. The Medusae's open helmet had excess resin around the pupil, which is inset so it can't simply be scraped off like a mould line, and the closed helmet just had a big mysterious line scored down it.

The legs on my Goblin Warboss on Gigantic Spider just would. not. go. together. Half the sockets were full of the opposite of an air bubble and the other half were too wide. Somehow the fallen log never managed to fit into the picture, either.

I'll admit to having had some successes, too. I don't remember any particular problems with my Tyrant Guard, and my Lhamean and Spiritseer only took a couple of hot water dunkings each to straighten out the bent bits. My Ur-ghul had a warped face, but it's an Ur-ghul - who's going to notice?


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I don't think I've bought a Finecast model since the Spiritseer. Not because I'm scared off entirely - I'll probably get some Ushabti quite soon and then complain about them too - but because of the recent releases! All the blisters have been plastic except Hobbit releases and the Shadowdancer, but I already had two metal Wardancer Lords.

I'm no fan of metal, either. I've built Exorcists and S-Dragons and Thunderfire cannon, I've greenstuffed wrists and shoulders, I've painstakingly filed off insignia that would have taken five minutes on plastic...
My Nob with Waaagh! Banner has fallen over and fallen apart so many times I'm seriously considering replacing him with a Finecast one, but that option ranks slightly lower than converting a plastic one.

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Originally Posted by Pssyche

John Bower, you're calling it "Failcrap".
Fair enough.
How many Finecast models have you bought and what were their failings?
Did GW Customer Services let you down too?
Just interested to know why you throw insulting terms about like confetti.

My experience is that I've never had a poor Finecast model and neither have my gaming friends, apart from the first couple of months.
The only time we hear "Failcast" is off people who never bought it in the first place.

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Don't have any. After seeing those that several of my friends bought with holes all over them; weapons more bent than a 10 bob note etc. I chose not to.

I never had any real problems with Finecast (oh no! a small bubble!); I don't really like it as a medium for squads/units, but I'll happily pick up single-figures (characters or monsters) in Finecast when I want them. I welcome wholeheartedly the move to plastic characters, however. It's a superior medium now they're able to produce really detailed and dynamic plastics.

Metal's awful. I think it's only familiarity which keeps people interested. It's heavy, it's hard to convert, the pieces never stick together properly, paint doesn't want to stay on it. I went back and painted my old metal Eldrad a couple of years ago, it was a pain in the ***.

It seems clear to me that Finecast was a stopgap between needing to get out of metals and bringing their plastics fully up to scratch. It did its job. All hail the plastic future!

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Originally Posted by John Bower

Don't have any. After seeing those that several of my friends bought with holes all over them; weapons more bent than a 10 bob note etc. I chose not to.

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[engage pedant mode]10 bob notes aren't bent....I think you mean 9 bob notes?[/disengage pedant mode]

i go for the old metal models cause im not a "poser" (hehe) and by that i mean that i enjoy lots of static old models. the finecast things i have are okay and although the lightness and posability are better overall im not stoked on their succeptebility to heat and the work it takes to mend /fix them up when damaged. i specifically dig the early 40k models the extra lead helps to keep features better than post 1993 models, which is sadly when they started to make some of the better "non static poses"