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  1. #21

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    The problem with 40k morale and falling back is that there is little balance. Either you're fine, or you're completely screwed, and because of how the dice work it is extremely random. It is inevitable that you'll get that one game every once and a while where you lose because you fail a leadership test. A more balanced system would still hurt you, but give the opportunity for a skilled player to mitigate the damage done by the failed test.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLink View Post
    I mean, falling back from combat, sure. Same thing with No Retreat. But why would Space Marines run away from the whole battle? Or any of the other dozens of crazy units in the game that shouldn't run like chickens, yet still do.
    I suppose you're right. Paladins with the ability to choose to pass/fail would probably help and make a lot of fluff sense.

  3. #23
    Brother-Captain
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    I figured it's because Grey Knights fight dirty as they're supposed to be outclassed all the time. I think it's the first combat test of the paladins to deliver the killing blow on four heralds without armor or weapons. You don't do that in an open fight, you do that by setting traps. ATSKNF is kind of a 'if I stay here I will die like a dumbass, but if I fall back I can drop that building on this guy.'

  4. #24

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    Im not sure why they would need to be fearless. They are LD 9 and normally with a character. Why would you think that they would be fearless ?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by asteroidjawa View Post
    Cause they don't know what fear is.

    are there any non-IC Terminators that actually are fearless?
    Well, there's the entire Deathwing...

  6. #26

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    Deathwing are fearless mainly because they are trained to be immune to the supposed "Lies" they will hear when hunting down the Fallen, at least that's how I understand it.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullinstron View Post
    Im not sure why they would need to be fearless. They are LD 9 and normally with a character. Why would you think that they would be fearless ?
    All Grey Knights used to be Fearless. Their fluff repeatedly states that they don't run and always fight to the last, and they're the biggest baddest soldiers in the entire galaxy who fight the scariest things in the galaxy on a regular basis and win, so from a fluff perspective any time I see Grey Knights run, especially off the board, I want to bang my head against the wall.

    Leadership 9 is not very good in CC. ATSKNF kinda sorta makes up for it, but running in the first place is the problem. It works for Space Marines, especially with Combat Tactics, but for Grey Knights it just doesn't fit.

    No Retreat is a good balance for Fearless. I do think it's silly that non-Fearless models never take No Retreat wounds, but for small, elite armies Fearless is a good thing. Normal SMs aren't so small and elite that they need Fearless, ATSKNF works better for them, but for armies like Grey Knights and Deathwing Fearless is better than ATSKNF.


    Fearless fits the fluff better, and lack of Fearless is a big weakness for Grey Knights. I would gladly trade the few genuinely broken things in the GK codex (rad/psykotroke grenades and 5pt psybolt ammo on Dreadnoughts) for Fearless on all Grey Knights. It fits the fluff better and that tradeoff would make the codex more balanced.



    Edit:
    I did just have the idea of giving Grand Masters the autopass/fail leadership test thing. Currently, there's little reason to take a Brother Captain, he's just to similar to the Grand Master and the Grand Master is well worth the extra 25pts. So if you bumped up the GM a few points and gave his squad auto-pass/fail, dropped the Brother Captain to two wounds and gave him the Grand Strategy, then you would have a good reason to pick one over the other while keeping both balanced.
    Last edited by DarkLink; 03-08-2012 at 03:37 PM.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  8. #28

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    I think it's reasonable. Probably more to balance than stories, but if all GK's aren't fearless I'm not sure why these ones would be. All Grey Knights know way too well how difficult their fight is, based on whom they are meant to battle and their foes' relative immortality.

  9. #29

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    I learned about the the turn 1 threat range of a PBS. Even with reinforced Aegis, they got it off, my whole draigowing squad ran off the table turn 1.

    On a side note does the paladins regular aegis stack with the dreads reinforced aegis?

  10. #30

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    I think the only reason they are not fearless is to provide some semblance of balance to the game. I guess they could of just boosted the point cost a bit and then given them fearless.

    In any event outside of PBS abilities I would generally prefer ATSKNF to fearless.

 

 
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