All-gun builds (Empire / Dwarves)

[Aenir]

drop the outrider on the pistolers, (not really worth it in this particular list IMO) and stock the points up for something nasty (Van Horsstmans Speculum?)

[ZenPaladin]

Played my first two games of 8th on Saturday and I can say I was quite please with my guns. My first game was against Dark Elves and I didn't get a lot of value out of the handguns but I bought two Engineers with Pidgion Bomb and put one with the Helblaster and one with the Morter.

The Morter was a dead eye! I rolled three direct hits thanks to the re-roll but in the fourth round a double missfire and then 1 blew up my morter!

The helblaster was a holy terror. Now that the Engeiners ability works on it thanks to the Erata I had no fear and took half of each of his units and his charriot with this gun.

And the pidgion's scared my foe silly and blew up one of my engineers.

The Second game was against Lizardmen and while the Morter was less effective the Helblaster continued to dazzle by erasing almost an entire unit of warriors. My 12 man detachment working with my mage saw off another with a very suprising amount of kills on the normaly tough greenskins.

[Winter12]

Sorry can I just change the analysis of the Handgunners v the Chaos Knights a bit. Bearing in mind pre-measuring, I think it should go a little more like this:
Handunners first turn - no shooting as Knights are 24.5" away.
Knights move to 12.5" away.
Handgunners shoot at long range, 30 shots, 10 hit, 5 wound, 1-2 kills (we'll say two, why not?)
Knights charge and need 6 or more on 3 dice ignoring the lowest.
Handgunners stand and shoot, 10 hit, 5 wound, 1-2 kills (we'll say two again to be mean)
6 Knights make it to combat, 12 attacks (with champion), 8 hit, 6-7 kills (we'll say six).
16 Handgunners fight, 8 hit (passed fear test), 2-3 wound (we'll say 3), maybe one kill.
Knights beat Handgunners, but Handgunners are steadfast and should reform (have to stay 8 wide)
Next turn, same happens. Ditto turn after but this time the Handgunners have no more ranks and so have a leadership test to make with a hefty penalty.

Took three rounds of combat but the Handgunners are running away. There's only 4 Knights left mind you but we were pretty harsh to them (rounding all fractions against them)

Most importantly though, that's 240 points of Handgunners against 400 points of Chaos Knights, so that's pretty much what should happen.

[Dwarflord17404]

For a true gunline dwarfs are king here is why

missle troops are not push over's like Empire actually pretty fighty for missle troops. You could even run units of rangers which are both fighty and have a crossbow.

Magic defense. Nothing kills small units like the awesome that is magic in this edtion. Rune of spell breaking can be taken in multiples as it is not a scroll.


Crossbows are king 30" is awesome


War machine crew's are stuborn and can be upgraded with runes to match the job. Engineers as unit upgrade's


Anvil of doom. The ablity to slow your oppent is huge for a gun line


High leadership (9) versus's empire avg 7 dwarfs don't break easily.


Empire is an army that works best when you use all the elements (calavary, massed infantry, artilery)
where as dwarfs can focus on one element and do well

[B-rock]

i think the dwarven gun line is better and with them you can take some good sword and board guys. you need some combat guys as you already know and dwarves do it best. the dwarves also are toughter. i see it with dwaves but not with empire. dwarves have few artillery options but better ones.

[WereWolf_nr]

Dwarf shooting can do some serious damage if you pick your targets correctly. Their foil tends to be that Empire can field about 2x as many guns (granted they are less accurate) supported by knights if you so wish. They end up doing better than dwarfs because of their flexibility.

For a little extra range you can use crossbowmen, however your expected kills will go down with 5+ saves (or better).

A quick number crunch for Empire gave me 33.5 kills / 100 shots for gun and 27.8 kills / 100 shots with crossbow against T3 5+ save with no to-hit penalties. Dwarfs are about 50% higher for guns due to their better BS and guns.

[Aldramelech]

Dwarfs dont have a better BS. Both Humans and Dwarfs are BS 3.

[WereWolf_nr]

My bad, I messed up the +1 hit on the rifle with a better BS. It will throw the numbers off for the Dwarfs vs Empire paragraph.

[Dooley]

The Second game was against Lizardmen .........amount of kills on the normaly tough greenskins.

Arent Lizardmen Traditionaly Blue?

[BlindGunn]

Arent Lizardmen Traditionaly Blue?

Depends on when you started Lizardmen. First army book said they were multiple colours - it had everything from the rainbow... (My Lizards Skinks, Krox & Saurus are Brown. Terradons are blue, Cold Ones Green. Etc.)

2nd Army book onwards, seems they prefer the Blues...