6th Edition - Mixed Saves rule WTF?

[Bean]

The nice thing about Draigo and Paladins is the fact that, even if Draigo isn't in the front of the unit, the Paladins can make Look out Sir! rolls to shunt melta and lascannon hits to Draigo and his storm shield. My wife played her first sixth ed game with paladins yesterday, and Draigo's excellent dice let him shrug off an entire melta vet/demo charge squad.

[Sir Biscuit]

It's not written explicitly, but you can't actually allocate save you fail. You can only attempt to Look Out, Sir when the wound is ALLOCATED. So you can't allocate to your character, take the character's save, and then LO,S. It has to be before you take any saves, at the moment allocation happens. I was thinking the same thing until someone[URL="http://projectbiomorph.com/index.php?topic=147.0"] pointed this out to me[/URL].

[Bean]

It's not written explicitly, but you can't actually allocate save you fail. You can only attempt to Look Out, Sir when the wound is ALLOCATED. So you can't allocate to your character, take the character's save, and then LO,S. It has to be before you take any saves, at the moment allocation happens. I was thinking the same thing until someone[URL="http://projectbiomorph.com/index.php?topic=147.0"] pointed this out to me[/URL].

When you make Look out Sir! rolls depends on whether the target unit has mixed saves or not.

If the unit doesn't have mixed saves, it works like this:

Pre-save wounds go on the unit. The unit makes that many saves, all at once. Unsaved wounds are allocated to models in the unit: closest first until it dies, then next closest until it dies, and so on. If an unsaved wound is allocated to a character, it can immediately make a LoS roll to ship the unsaved wound to a different model--which then takes a wound (no saves, because the save has already been taken).

If the unit does have mixed saves, it works like this:

Pre-save wounds are assigned to the closest model, and he keeps making saves until he dies. Then pre-save wounds are allocated to the next closest model, which keeps making saves until it does, and so on. If a pre-save wound is allocated to a character, it can make an LoS roll to ship the pre-save wound to a different model--which then has to make a save (since no save has yet been taken.)

So, if what you're saying is that Draigo can't make an invulnerable save and then make an LoS roll to send the unsaved wound to a paladin, you're right.

However, a paladin can make an LoS roll to send a wound to Draigo before any saves are made--and if Draigo fails the save, Draigo takes the wound. (but, since Draigo has four wounds and Eternal Warrior, this is often better than the Paladin taking a wound that would inflict Instant Death.)

Does that all sound right?

[Sir Biscuit]

Was discussing this with Kirby while you posted, that's exactly the conclusion we came to, which makes it make sense why it has that (unsaved wound) thing in there. A bit confusing but pretty simple once you get it down.

[Bean]

Was discussing this with Kirby while you posted, that's exactly the conclusion we came to, which makes it make sense why it has that (unsaved wound) thing in there. A bit confusing but pretty simple once you get it down.

Yeah, sometimes the rules have you allocating unsaved wounds (wounds for which you've already failed your save) and sometimes they have you allocating wounds (pre-save wounds, or wounds for which you haven't yet taken a save) and Look Out Sir works on whichever type you're allocating for that particular set of shots.

Glad we're in agreement =)

[Nachodragon]

Let's have a simple scenario.
1 IC with a 2+ saves, 3 wounds.
10 Guys with 5+ save, 1 wound each.
15 wounds are caused , AP-. (so it's easier)
IC is standing in front.
This is a mixed save scenario. You have to roll for each save separately.
First wound allocated to IC. He rolls 2+.
Second Wound allocated to IC. He rolls 2+.
Third wound allocated to IC, He rolls 1. He performs a LOS and gets a 2+. This is an unsaved wound and is sent to a Guy (and dies).
Fourth wound allocated to IC. He rolls another 1. He performs a LOS and gets a 1. IC takes first wound.
The IC makes the next 4 wounds. Then fails the next to saves and LOS rolls. He has taken 3 wounds and dies.
There are now 4 wounds left. They can be rolled together for the remaining guys, and any unsaved wounds are removed closest to furthest.

[DarkLink]

Nacho, go read over the posts above yours. Theirs is the correct interpretation. A character with a superior save does not grant it to the entire squad. You can't take a 3++ on Driago, then pass it off to a Paladin if you fail the save.

[Nachodragon]

I don't understand what they are saying. What is pre-save wounds? That is not a thing. Wounds are allocated to the closest unit. In the event of mixed saves you roll them individually and keep assigning wound to the closest model (in my case the IC with 2+) until he is dead or no more wounds....

If all the models have the same save then roll all the same. If the IC is in front then either he is dead or everyone around him is dead....

5 guys all same saves and wounds, 1 is an IC.

10 wounds. Roll 6 successful. 4 unsaved wounds. 1 allocated to IC, 3 to other guys. Roll LOS and get 2+. All guys dead, IC lives...

What am I missing. Cause this seems logical to me.

[Bean]

The thing that you are missing, nacho, is that LoS is made when a wound is allocated. In the case of the target unit with mixed saves, the wound is allocated before the saves are taken. Thus, the LoS roll must also be made and the wound re-allocated (if the roll is successful) before the save is made.

By the time the independent character in your example has made a save for a given wound, he's well past the point when the wound was allocated to him, and thus is no longer able to make a LoS roll.

When the target doesnt have different saves, only unsaved wounds are allocated, and LoS therefore re-allocates unsaved wound (wounds for which the save has already been failed).

When the target does have different saves, only wounds (wounds against which no save has yet been taken) are allocated. Thus, only wounds (and not unsaved wounds, as they are not allocated in this acenario) can be reallocated.

[Nachodragon]

Ok, I think I get it. I was glossing over the word allocated. This makes sense. Now, we know this will be FAQ'd, I guess we shall see how GW goes about it.