Codex Tyranids: Summary in first post

[Andrew283]

Rending still rules!

[Sam]

-The bane wolf... can't think of any better troop destroyer!!...12'' Range template wound on 2+ AP 3 .... hum... OP!

The Bane Wolf does not have a 12" range template, only the Hellhound does. Bane Wolf is just a template.

[MVBrandt]

Well, this is an easy one to number crunch.

Let us presume 6 point gargoyles with a 3 point rending upgrade.

So, 10 gargoyles for 60 points vs. 6 gargoyles for 54 points ... to get things to an even #, we need 90 points ... so 15 gargoyles nonrending vs. 10 gargoyles rending.

Let's keep bio-plas out of the equation, it wouldn't be affected anyway IIRC.

15 gargoyles charge with 30 attacks
10 charge with 20 attacks

Against guard

15 hits, 7.5 wounds, 5 dead guardsmen, max 7.5/15 dead
10 hits, 1.67 rends, 3.33 wounds, 3.89 dead guardsmen, max 5/10 dead


Against MEQ

15 hits, 5 wounds, 1.67 dead MEQ, max 5/15 dead
10 hits, 1.67 rends, 1.67 wounds, 2.23 dead MEQ, max 3.33/10 dead

Against Orks
15 hits, 5 wounds, 4.17 dead orks, max 5/15 dead
10 hits, 1.67 rends, 1.67 wounds, 3.06 dead orks, max 3.33/10 dead


And of course, 15 gargs have 5 more wounds than 10.

Rending would not be wroth 3 points in this case, IMO ... with the caveat that sure it adds value against monsters, vehicles, etc. ... but do you really want to spend that much to give yourself a chance against such targets?

Rending as a general rule enables a unit to become a threat to things it otherwise would not be, but in terms of improving its base effectiveness, it has to be cheap relative to the unit cost. That is to say, it's not worth diminishing your upper bounds of potential significantly for the sake of a "maybe" rend.

Gargs are an anti-infantry unit at best ... unless you are desperate to enable them to hurt vehicles, rending at the rumored cost above is not going to be a positive trade-off for their anti-infantry role.

[crazyzombie]

I'd have to agree with MVbandit not because rending is bad (which it's not) but because athought 3 points don't make much of an point impact on a high point modle (ie most any modle over 15 points) it make a huge impact a molde who's base point cost is only double the upgrade. I mean that doesn't that big when looking at 10 with vs 15 without but if your running swarms it could be 60 with vs 90 without that's another unit! It just law of swarms uprades need to be dirt cheap if to be bought

[MVBrandt]

So since I kinda killed this, how about some comic resurrection ...


People are getting soo crazy about the new Nid dex, someone faked a "Codex stolen at gunpoint from GW HQ" rumor on Warseer. Yeah.


There's a strong belief purveyed among the GW staff that the reason the rumors have been clamped down so tight is to prevent people going "MY CODEX IS COMING OUT IN 6 MONTHS? NOT GONNA BUY ANYTHING FROM THIS OR THE NEXT ONE."

While I can't really argue with that due to the lack of any real empirical evidence, and don't want to go down that route, once they've announced a codex at a Games Day themselves, why on Earth would you keep it clamped down so tightly? Anyone who plans to buy Nids (me, for example) is going to buy NOTHING while we wait for the new rules ... give us the preview on a couple of the better units, and we'll start buying right away on a longer and probably more spendy timeline. C'est la vie.

Anyway, it was a funny prank.


Edit: Someone saved it for posterity: [url]http://forums.eternityofwar.com/showthread.php?p=136203[/url]

[HsojVvad]

So since I kinda killed this, how about some comic resurrection ...

While I can't really argue with that due to the lack of any real empirical evidence, and don't want to go down that route, once they've announced a codex at a Games Day themselves, why on Earth would you keep it clamped down so tightly? Anyone who plans to buy Nids (me, for example) is going to buy NOTHING while we wait for the new rules ... give us the preview on a couple of the better units, and we'll start buying right away on a longer and probably more spendy timeline. C'est la vie.

[url]http://forums.eternityofwar.com/showthread.php?p=136203[/url]

As you said, once it was announce that Tyranids at GD was being released they are still clamping down on rumours. The more stupider thing is, you can't buy a codex or box set or almost anything from Tyranids, that is sold out. I want to buy anthour battlebox for anticipatiing the new codex. I can't now because GW dosn't sell it now.

So what is it GW? You are not releasing rumours so we still buy things, but how can we buy things when the things we want are not on sale. Namely box sets and Gaunts. GW makes no sence at all right now with their new philosophy, what ever it is.

[Lerra]

rending at the rumored cost above

Just to clarify, I pulled the points cost out of thin air as an example. I would be surprised if rending is included for free at 6 points a model - that seems awfully strong for a mobile unit like gargoyles.

You showed that 3 points/model is probably too expensive for rending, but 1-2 points would probably work. Otherwise at 3 points, it might be viable to upgrade only one or two models in the squad for wound allocation and that little extra oomph versus certain targets.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, rending's not so great against stuff without armor, especially on a unit as cheap as gargoyles. That's not what rending is good for. 10 gargoyles killing ~3 marines on the charge thanks to rending is actually fairly good, considering how cheap the gargoyles are. The rending would be wasted on orks and guard, though.

[The Custodian]

Hey guys, some new morsels from warseer, seems noone has been keeping BOLS up to date

First since im to lazy to type things again heres some quotes...

Have some news for you guys...

Was at the my GW earlier and discussed the newer nid rumours with some of the staff, anywho the confirmed to me the existance of the trygon in the dex, which isn't new, but said the new kit will also be able to create a new nid, something called a Mawloch. This seems to confirm the "4 new species" thing. Also the comment that the trygon kit would be like the new skaven doombell.

Later confirmed

The Mawloc is a Trygon variant with a distending mouth (like the Red Terror) and lots of funny spines all over it.

And recently...

So, small update, the Hive Guard look awesome, surely a model everyone will want to have, but imo is also going to be a new "Zoa" in terms of its tippy-ness. It's a tall bit of metal. Those others who have seen can confirm.

For me, i'm thinking weighted bases may be in my future.

Ravener sprues are much more pleasing than the gargoyles to me. I doubt we will hear much complaining at all from these.

My understanding is "most" of whats coming will be in Dec. WD. With some "surprise(s)" still being held for Jan. reveal and later Direct release.

Beyond this, I cannot say anything more, sorry. Price you pay to get more access.

And,

This is from another source,

"The rumors around CC are running rampant. There is no doubt their effectiveness will be improved in the new codex. Models equipped will get a strength boon and the additional glance or wound on hit, so you can say these will be can-openers."

I also heard the rumor that the nid ability that has been mentioned prior with CC is they can latch onto vehicles and prevent movement away from combat at the expense of their bonus attacks.



Pic is not public yet.

ENJOY!

EDIT: I just had a look through the topic and it seems this also has yet to be posted.... It makes the last couple quotes make sense...

Todays Rumors

These rumors are from early on. So subject to all standard rumor caveats. I'm removing those we already have, and those we know to be false.


To support more Fex' in the army an overall reduction in stats should take place, however, increases elsewhere compensate (not sure if they mean in weapons or in the statline)

Crushing Claws are huge "can openers"...+1A, double s (10Max), ignore as, add d6 pen, d3 "wounds"/"vehicle hits" (too good to be true, IMO)

Talons +1A, "pinning"?

Envenomed claws, upgrade to CC symbiotes, wound on 3+

Rending Claws, autowound on 6 on hit, more expensive

Spinefists, fire and run (is this the rumor "subconcious weapon" we heard before?)

Barbed Strangler, large blast, entangle...unit next move as difficult terrain (Again, I thought this was a rumor elsewhere, too)

Bone sword, pretty much the same

Lashwhip, remove X attacks from attacking unit (allocate as wounds), can target individual, but then only affects single model. no min 1A. no longer base contact constrained. (a lot here and it seems complex, so I highly doubt all (or any) this is true, but I have no way to separate wheat from chaff)

Surprise Assault. (I'm not sure where this fits, if its an ability, a psychic thing, a army rule, a deployment rule, etc. If I were guessing I'd think it's lictor or Scuttlers related.) Unit enters play from reserve anywhere on table. must be 12" from enemy. Cannot assault the turn it enters play. Allowed normal DS "run"

Enjoy boys....

[Madjob]

To support more Fex' in the army an overall reduction in stats should take place, however, increases elsewhere compensate (not sure if they mean in weapons or in the statline)

Crushing Claws are huge "can openers"...+1A, double s (10Max), ignore as, add d6 pen, d3 "wounds"/"vehicle hits" (too good to be true, IMO)

These two together are confusing but also somewhat worrying, as there's two ways we can take the information together:

1. Carnifexes will be losing a large amount of strength, making Crushing Claws necessary to bring their strength up to what we're used to.
2. Carnifexes are not losing a large amount of strength (though still some, possibly), but Crushing Claws will be available to creatures aside from Carnifexes.

It could be both, with Carnifexes losing a lot of strength and the biomorph being an option for other creatures.

Talons +1A, "pinning"?

Envenomed claws, upgrade to CC symbiotes, wound on 3+

Rending Claws, autowound on 6 on hit, more expensive

Scything Talons? The pinning part is odd, I wonder if it means that if they fail a morale check, they don't strike on their initiative. Envenomed claws seems pretty standard. Rending Claws on the other hand sounds dubious, it's possible but I don't like the implications of reverting a single army's rending rules to the old version.

Spinefists, fire and run (is this the rumor "subconcious weapon" we heard before?)

Barbed Strangler, large blast, entangle...unit next move as difficult terrain (Again, I thought this was a rumor elsewhere, too)

Bone sword, pretty much the same

Lashwhip, remove X attacks from attacking unit (allocate as wounds), can target individual, but then only affects single model. no min 1A. no longer base contact constrained. (a lot here and it seems complex, so I highly doubt all (or any) this is true, but I have no way to separate wheat from chaff)

Surprise Assault. (I'm not sure where this fits, if its an ability, a psychic thing, a army rule, a deployment rule, etc. If I were guessing I'd think it's lictor or Scuttlers related.) Unit enters play from reserve anywhere on table. must be 12" from enemy. Cannot assault the turn it enters play. Allowed normal DS "run"

Subconscious weapon does indeed sound fun, allowing gaunts a surprising amount of mobility. I was never much of a fan of Lash Whips, however. Surprise assault, if it indeed applies to Lictors, is a step in the right direction, getting rid of a problem the unit never should have had in the first place. Now let's just hope they fix the other problems our tentacle-faced friends have....